OK, I’m a complete idiot and I panicked with my first post. I LOVE THE CAR and the tires are completely acceptable when run at proper temperatures. I was highly frustrated at the time I wrote the first session report. I got some advice that didn’t apply to my situation and I didn’t question it therefore I’m stupid, panicked, and wasted a couple of track sessions.

Overall, StephenTi, it took a lot of work but I now have the 6Speed official time to beat at Gingerman, 1:37.587 sec (Stephan had a 1:38 with little time at the track – or some one else tell me if you have faster). It’s not great but that’s the best I ran. I have included the lap data.

Car setup, Rear GT-3 sway 3rd from stiffest. Unkown gas pressures in the shocks, estimated at 100 front, 150 rear (both low I think). All shocks 3 bump, 5 rebound. 38 psi hot front, 39 psi rear. WAY better handling. Thanks again guys for recognizing the problem. Dry track except for the last session, very humid and 83F.

Brakes:
Still a problem with the brakes. When I replaced the fluid with Castrol SRF, I didn’t have a PS2 to cycle the ABS to get everything out, and when I reblead the brakes I didn’t then either so I had a pretty mushy and hard to modulate pedal. I am hoping this goes away when I have the brakes properly blead. I may need to replace the lines. Any experience on pedal feel going with stainless braids? Most people say no on P cars, the braids are only for reliability.

The rotors were glowing at the track. Even after a full cool down lap with no brakes applied (over 2 minutes), the front rotors were 590, calipers 370, rear rotors 370 calipers 220. I chose to drive around for 5 minutes to cool the rotors to around 300 before stopping the car. I think I have brake issues and need to look at upgrading or somehow getting more air in there (already have GT-3 cup scoops up front).

Suspension:
Now me likey! You can really get a nice range of control and the car handled well. It was pretty neutral and could be easily controlled with the right foot. I will review the video and see what my comments were while driving in different corners, right now my memory says it was pretty good. The shocks were set at 3 bump 5 rebound both front and rear. 3 might be a little soft up front but I think I want to go to more bar upfront rather than firming the shocks. Started the day with 3 / 4 but really couldn’t feel much difference with my butt.

Engine:
The engine was fine. The whine appeared again and it is the power steering pump right at the back of the motor (big bright silver thing on the right side). Not the turbos �*, but what gives with the pump? Burned almost no oil. Really surprised as I got about 100 track miles today�* at 6.2 mpg.

Tranny:
Damn near perfect.

Tires:
Started the day at 40 front 41 rear hot. This was good. Changed to 38 front 39 rear (Thanks Sol at Perfect Power and others). This was even better. Didn’t get pyrometer measurements because I didn’t have pit help and was worried about cooking the brakes again pitting hot. OK, the tires aren’t bad but they go off pretty badly after about 5 hot laps, fastest lap is lap 3 for me. They really aren’t bad but I don’t think they can handle the heat of being driven hard for very long. After the 5 laps, I couldn’t get to within a second or so of my fastest times.

Data:
You can see from the graph, Gingerman has a mini kink like Road America. Turn 3 on my graph where the black cursor line is (turn 4 at the track) is over 100 mph and about 0.9 g’s for me (it get’s my attention �*). Looking at long g’s, you can see that stock I can accel at 0.4 g’s and brake at slightly over 1.2 g’s so you can see even stock I am getting some down force at the end of straights. My braking is pretty poor as I explained I was having some trouble. Lat g’s max out at just over 1.0 which is pretty darn good on street tires.



Driving style:
Still getting used to driving the car. It really is quite different. Please tell me if this is wrong guys but I found that if you can throw the car fairly hard into the turn so that the rear slides a little, then you can modulate with the throttle really effectively. What I was doing was throwing the car in with moderate trail braking, getting the car to drift pretty strongly at neutral throttle, and then easing off the throttle to rotate the *** end around, at which point when you have rotated where you want, you squeeze the throttle pretty hard and pretty fast and then boom shacka lacka … there she goes. It sure is fun and seemed quick. Is this right or am I wacko?

Overall:
REALLY had fun! Love the car! Can’t wait to go to stage 4 and get the bigger PS2 rubber on when I come back with Chicago PCA in August. Also hope to have the TA body work on for some more down force.

For the weekend I took the car off the track slowly during a deluge. Dropped two tires off today, and got pretty sideways on one turn but all in all, considering all the slippin’ and slidin’ I did early, a great time at test and tune. Got about 3 wet 20 minute sessions, and 7 dry. Can’t wait for more and I have a lot to learn to drive this car well!

 

Glad that you're finally enjoying tracking your tt. I know how it is when you think that you got all the bases covered and go in expecting perfection and then when it's not, frustration sets in.

I drive the same way so I'll leave that to someone with a more experience to comment upon.

I don't know the track at all but is it a fast track? The track I drive in needs alot more mechanical grip then aerodynamic aids and that's my aim in the long run. The reason why I'm asking is that once you have your stage 4, you might be in a situation where there might be some turbo lag to deal with. Finally, change your brake fluid, bleed the brakes and check the condition of the pads and rotors.

 

Way to go, Tim. We'll definitely have to head up together next time and chase our times down to the low 1:30s.

 

What kind of braking are you doing??? I recall your braking theory from a while back, not that I want to bring that back up... But are you practicing the technique that you were talking about??? If so, that would cook the brakes pretty darn quick. Were there any other turbo drivers out there and were they having the any braking issues? My own humble opinion... you are coming into the turns to hot and overcooking your brakes trying to slow down. I once destroyed the pads and rotors in a 996 C2 doing the same.

 

Hey Tim and Stephen,
I'd sure like to join you both at GingerMan sometime. I finally am getting a better feel for that track and had a really good couple of days there last month with the Michiana PCA.

For me, my weakest point was the turn 7, 8 9 sequence. I could never get the car balanced the right way transitioning from 8 to 9. Anyway, I finally started to figure it out and had some fairly good runs going by Sunday. Ironically, I seemed to get turns 1 and 2 into a groove more quickly than the 7,8, 9 sequence. I am planning to get a hotlap timing system in the car soon, so I will be able to add my lap time info before too long.

If anyone is interested to see the track we are talking about, you can go to http://www.gingermanraceway.com

So, keep on keep'n on Tim. Hope to see you and Stephen out there sometime this summer. The Western Michigan Region's Grattan event is coming up in September -- you both might want to consider coming to that one too. Sunday afternoon is devoted to a time trial -- no one on the track except yourself!

Best Wishes,

 

Tim,

You must bleed the old fluid in the ABS system completely out when you change to SRF. I had my dealer did it and it took them some time. Try that first and see if the brake is still soft.

Good to see the data logger working for you. Please post another thread on how you set it up.

 

Sloth: The fastest driver will brake as late as possible and as hard as possible (other issues aside - mechanical, car upset, ...). This is what I will keep trying to do until I can't fix the heat problems. I'll still work at it.

 

Braking late yes, but Tim I don't really see the value in trail braking unless the turn is a downhill turn and you want to keep the steering tires slightly planted. As for the brake temps, go to the black pads and use Sol's front 14" racing rotor. I'll bet no more heat issues (except of course that the car is blisteringly fast and HEAVY and on Gingerman that = high brake temps.) Also, did I miss something or did you get pyros of the rotor caliper but NOT of the three tire tread zones? Glad your liking the car better. I really felt bad after I read the first track day post.

 

James, the value in trail braking is it's faster. You can keep the car closer to the friciton circle if you trail brake, and therefore are faster.

I do have Pagid blacks on and will look at Sol's racing rotors as mine already have small cracks. I will also look at the TE front nose and figure where to run the additional cooling lines to do the most good. I will probably have to custom fab something.

Cooling first. Cooling always first.

 

Tim, out of curiosity, how many track days have you done at this point?

 

Very little experience, under 10 I think.

 

Tim, I have 10 at this point so we are about the same per number of track days.

At this point, I have had my suspension set up once, with instructors commenting on my setup being nice and neutral. I do play with the tire pressures to maintain 38-40 hot all around but that's it. I have switched to Pagid Oranges and bleed my brakes each event.

FWIW, I'm concentrating on learning the car as it is and just being able to do things consistently. As I have gotten used to the car, I've changed one thing at a time, first moving to oranges, bleeding every event instead of every other etc. I find that this really helps me get a feel for how the car is handling/works. At this point, my suspension settings are getting to be too soft and I would like better turnin so I am going to be getting some suspension help. I was taught to only change one thing at a time in order to isolate the effects of said change and this helps me. YMMV.

Have fun on the track.

PS I'm not timing yet as I'm probably still slow

PPS. My next mod which I have been waiting for quite a while is my aux oil cooler. Cant wait to get that on the car.