Well I guess we just have to see who's apples or oranges are faster at Zone 2 in March. I'll get the AWD posse together and we'll do battle.




I just think the concept of adding all these mods to the RWD TT without consideration of what it would improve in the same manner on AWD is misplaced. To isolate the drivetrains only the ONLY thing you gain is less drag and 73 lbs of weight that's insignificant in most aspects of handling except the MOST important part. CORNER EXIT.

In an ideal world, where we were flying lizards and could make the car handle perfectly in both configurations, I do think the RWD would be faster. And even then by only a fraction of a second or so (with pro driving).

Besides, with all the work it takes to go fast in RWD (conversion, LSD, extra CB, etc) All you have to do to the TT is add coilovers and negative camber and go. And with with K24's and ECU it's AT LEAST a second or two faster than a SCCA T1 car (for example I'm already 1 second off at RA, and that's in a DE on a blocked lap on sport cups vs A6's in T1, and at VIR only the first time out there, 3 seconds off the record on old R6's). I am at this point right now and until we see some RWD TT's going in a similar manner, I'm holding fast.

Not to mention I'm going to replicate suspension wise what Al Norton has in his car, still in AWD and Randy Pobst said it was "perfect" and I'll take his advice ALL DAY!!!!!!!!

I should have put a disclaimer that I actually think many of us may be faster in RWD because of straight line speed. But when you start pushing the envelope in the cornering department, is when you'll see the difference.

I know you are tempted to do it because of all the push you had at that recent DE you went to (pocono I think), but I promise you you can add some negative camber and 85% of that will go away. You havent even touched the edge of what your car can do in AWD and your reaching for the help button too soon, try seeing what that AWD can do first.

 

Heavy, what setup does Al Norton have?
Where did you corner balance your car? I'm installing a set of JIC's myself pretty soon and will need corner balance/alignment.
Thinking about Kinetic or J3... Maybe Gran Turismo or America's best can do it also?

 

ah if you have a tip you are not allowed to talk to us anymore!!

 

your comments are correct and I would recommend the track guys to look at some vids from behind, you may find out that you are not at the spot on the track you think you are!! By no means my best lines I will admit.
thanks for the comments

 

tranny cooler worked great!! I dont want to scare you guys but that tranny fluid gets near 300 degrees!!! on the track
my cooler kept it a little over 200, I have a thermistat and a switch.

 

You can't go wrong with that setup. However, the list of mods is long and extensive (not to mention expensive).

 

Barstewards

 

America's best is pretty good. You'll spend at least 1k at J3 or Kinetic. I dont like that they wont go by how long it takes, they just charge you a grand or more.


To be honest I was the happiest when Neil Orton did my CB.

 

What has he done now?

From what I know, he did:

-GT3 Lower Control Arms
-Subframe Bushings
-JIC w/ upgraded spring rates
-Front and Rear sways
-The widest wheels he could fit.

I dont know what else is on there, but that is my short list along with a toe steer kit.

 

I agree, watching yourself from a trailing car really exposes how smooth you ARENT.



I'm starting not to like vids of people following me, but it does show you where you look like you should be going faster, though the feeling in the car may be totally different.

 

I know I know... What I was getting at though, is if you LIKE what you feel in the car, you can always swap out many components in your car to make the chassis/suspension more rigid and so on! There is a lot of work to be done with your setup

 

Time will tell... My short list has GT3 Control arms, Toe arm kit, Subframe bushings, wider wheels/tires, and the tranny cooler setup. I'm not using all the power I have now... When I'm running a sub-2:05 on VIR Full, then I'll worry about if I should go RWD or not...

Mike

 

That's a very, very important point Mike

 

Randy Pobst drove my car at Barber Motorsports Park this spring with one waste gate actuator rod broken (i.e. running on one turbo) and still turned laps below the existing track record for the unlimited NASA TT class, whichever one that is called. That was before I had rear anti-roll bar at full hard and at that time had front at mid-position which still gave some understeer in the 2 slow corners.

In front I have GT3 lower arms connecting to the McP struts and the GT3 trailing arms (some call them leading). I really don't know what they're supposed to be called. In rear there are GT3 upper and lower control arms with GT3 toe links. Subframe bushings are solid but no change in motor mounts. Coilovers are JIC Cross with full soft in front and full hard in rear. Going to full soft on front anti-roll bar before next event. Replacement springs are Eibach 600# front and 800# rear with JIC Cross helpers still in place ( I still drive the car on the street, as recently as today, and I don't want to knock the gold inlays out of my teeth). Rear brakes are stock Porsche with PFC 97 compound and fronts are Brembo 355 X 32 2-piece slotted rotors with 6-piston Monobloc calipers and PFC 01 compound pads (good for 2 events). Trying Ferodo DS3000 at next event in July for comparison. Looking for same torque with better pad life.

Wheels are CCW C10's with 9.5 in front and 12.5 in rear (John knows the offsets, I don't.) Took a bit of doing to get the rears to work without scrubbing off rubber in areas not desired. Had to clock the left turbo a bit. Tires are Hoosier R6 with 275 X 18 front and 335 X 18 rear with no rubbing problems other than inner fender liners. In terms of diameter F/R, it's really a good match.

Front camber 3 and rear 2.5. Ride height front is 109mm and rear is 141mm. A lot of rake, you say, but I say it is very stable through turn 9 to braking for 10A at Road Atlanta and the car can go VERY fast at that juncture, although I usually don't push it that much.

Most recent corner balancing and alignment was done by Neil Orton at Orton Performance. Current weight with driver and new 24 qt. cool shirt addition and other items is circa 3700 lbs. That could account for limited brake pad life plus giving demo rides to a former linebacker or offensive tackle (Manalex) at 6'6 and around 300 lbs. Maybe he never played football but he was damn sure big enough to be effective if he had chosen to do so.

I hope that helps clarify what modifications have been made to my suspension. I don't drive the car anywhere near its limits but it really feels good at my level of comfort and also felt good at the limits to which it was pushed by Randy Pobst---I feel confident that was probably the limits the car had to offer on 1 turbochager. He didn't seem to be holding back in fear of a shunt.

I always drive with PSM on bc I am not trying to test The cars limits. "Leave some in reserve at every corner" is my credo. The first thing Randy said when he was belting up was "do you mind if I turn this off?"

P.S. Neil Orton's engine conversion provides a LOT of power so I can take it easy in the braking zones and turns and still keep up with most in my run group. I love the acceleration in the straights and that's where I keep time.

Hope this takes the mystery out of my setup.

 

Al

Glad to see that you have your car so well dialled up and I agree with you, nothing like using the power in the straights to alleviate the effort in the corners, it just feels great!

I think we need to be realistic however, if Randy Pobst was lapping below lap record times in the unlimited class with a 3700lbs street car with decent suspension upgrades and semi-slicks, that lap record must not have been very fast?

The same when it comes to Randy Pobst saying that the car has perfect handling, it is a 4WD street car for God Sakes, it can never be perfect for a race driver! One thing is to say that the handling of the car is decent and another that this is perfect, let's not fool ourselves. When Bergemeister says that the Cup car handles like cr@p and it turns out that it needed a 0.1 mn toe out to fix it and now he says it is perfect, I have to take such comments with a grain of salt!

I guess if he had driven a proper 2WD setup it would have felt like an F1 car to him!

Nothing against Randy of course and I am exagerating a bit, I have huge respect for him, but his words might have been taken a bit out of context?