Am I running too rich?
#1
07-05-2008, 08:01 AM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Japan
Age: 46
Posts: 462
Rep Power: 48 
Am I running too rich?
I used to run an UMW flash before switching over to Softronic (because I got K16/16g from Dan). Did a plug change along with the turbo swap, and I notice that my old plugs are really really black. Could I have been running very rich? Pics attached.
Also today when idling I smell gas from the exhaust. So it doesn't seem to be a flash specific problem - could it be possible that US made flash doesn't play nice with my RoW car / Japanese gas? Should I get an AFR gauge, collect data and ask Softronic to custom make a flash?
Also today when idling I smell gas from the exhaust. So it doesn't seem to be a flash specific problem - could it be possible that US made flash doesn't play nice with my RoW car / Japanese gas? Should I get an AFR gauge, collect data and ask Softronic to custom make a flash?
#3
07-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Basic Sponsor
Is that a pic from the UWM flash set up or on ur current set up?
how many miles on plugs?
how many miles on plugs?
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2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
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2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#4
07-05-2008, 01:33 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132
My stock plugs looked like that at 18k when I changed them, fwiw. On the OEM tune.
These cars seem to be very hard on plugs....so I plan to just change them a lot.
I am using Bosch FR6 LDC's now. Relatively cheap (one of the few things on the car...don't mention labor ok).
But, I defer to Markski.
JB
These cars seem to be very hard on plugs....so I plan to just change them a lot.
I am using Bosch FR6 LDC's now. Relatively cheap (one of the few things on the car...don't mention labor ok).
But, I defer to Markski.
JB
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 07-05-2008 at 01:35 PM.
#5
07-05-2008, 03:42 PM
996choy,
As a reference, my denso plugs were a medium to dark tan color after 1 year and approx. 15,000 miles. I thought they looked pretty good. Every car I have had has left the plugs tan in color - the black color in your picture looks too rich.
As a reference, my denso plugs were a medium to dark tan color after 1 year and approx. 15,000 miles. I thought they looked pretty good. Every car I have had has left the plugs tan in color - the black color in your picture looks too rich.
#6
07-05-2008, 05:42 PM
I used to run an UMW flash before switching over to Softronic (because I got K16/16g from Dan). Did a plug change along with the turbo swap, and I notice that my old plugs are really really black. Could I have been running very rich? Pics attached.
Also today when idling I smell gas from the exhaust. So it doesn't seem to be a flash specific problem - could it be possible that US made flash doesn't play nice with my RoW car / Japanese gas? Should I get an AFR gauge, collect data and ask Softronic to custom make a flash?
Also today when idling I smell gas from the exhaust. So it doesn't seem to be a flash specific problem - could it be possible that US made flash doesn't play nice with my RoW car / Japanese gas? Should I get an AFR gauge, collect data and ask Softronic to custom make a flash?
take the car to a dyno and get your AFR's on full boost
#7
07-05-2008, 06:47 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,134
Rep Power: 122
Or, talk a look at your after cat O2 sensors on your scanner and see what they read. They will tell you whether you are rich or not.
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#8
07-05-2008, 09:11 PM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Japan
Age: 46
Posts: 462
Rep Power: 48
Bad - around 180km per refill (45L) so 4km / L ... or around 10 mpg 
Seems to the direction of running rich ..
Seems to the direction of running rich ..
#9
07-05-2008, 09:11 PM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Japan
Age: 46
Posts: 462
Rep Power: 48
That's from the UMW flash setup ... changed around 24000km, flash done at 14000km
#10
07-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Japan
Age: 46
Posts: 462
Rep Power: 48
Mine is a tip so can't dyno I suppose ... but I'll just check my AFR on highway. The O2 sensor is a good idea, will try that today.
Thanks a lot everyone for the ideas.
Thanks a lot everyone for the ideas.
#13
07-06-2008, 03:07 AM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Japan
Age: 46
Posts: 462
Rep Power: 48
Checked my after cat O2 sensor voltage. At idle it's around 0.85V steady, occasionally dipping to 0.65. Could any expert interpret that for me?
Also had trouble starting the car today
it's around 35C here, may be it's making me running even richer!
Also had trouble starting the car today
it's around 35C here, may be it's making me running even richer!
#14
07-06-2008, 05:22 AM
Smelling gas when you first start up the car is normal as it tends to puddle in the manifold
after the vehicle shuts down, also the catalytic converters are not working at full efficency
untill the vehicle is warmed up. Should you smell gas when driving the car- (a thick odor- not
an occasional hint)- that would be an indication that the car is running too rich. Should the
mixture be to this point you would probably also see black smoke from unburnt fuel coming
from the exhaust. Turbos all run rich- even with stock programming and yes our program
does richen the mixture a little to offer a gain in performance- but not to the point of nearly
.42 gallons every six miles. I see two possibilities to help further determine what may be
going on. Either you flash the vehicle back to stock and check fuel consumption with the
stock programming the same way you did with the software in the car and keep track of
milage. Or- the most accurate way to determine(and my recommendation) what is going on
with the mixture (long term adaptive fuel trim) is to have the vehicle read out by a PWIS or
similar diagnostic tool and have the data checked. You would be looking at RKATS (fuel trim
at idle) FRAU's and FRAO's which are what determines how much fuel is injected at any
specific load or rpm range. This number on a turbo is always going to be a little rich (which
results in a slightly negative number displayed on the data read out). With our programming
the number will also be a bit more negative than stock. However if when the data is read out
and the fuel trim displays a maximum rich RKAT number ( -3.0 to -4.5 max) there is an
indication of another problem. Something like a vacuum leak, a faulty Mass air or another
issue. This read out should be done with a fault check as well to determine if any codes are
stored. We sell a tool to do this but if you are not interested in the DIY approach you may
take it to a dealer who is more than able to tell you this information. This is the only accurate
way to determine how rich the car is running (more accurately how the ECU is telling the car
to run)
after the vehicle shuts down, also the catalytic converters are not working at full efficency
untill the vehicle is warmed up. Should you smell gas when driving the car- (a thick odor- not
an occasional hint)- that would be an indication that the car is running too rich. Should the
mixture be to this point you would probably also see black smoke from unburnt fuel coming
from the exhaust. Turbos all run rich- even with stock programming and yes our program
does richen the mixture a little to offer a gain in performance- but not to the point of nearly
.42 gallons every six miles. I see two possibilities to help further determine what may be
going on. Either you flash the vehicle back to stock and check fuel consumption with the
stock programming the same way you did with the software in the car and keep track of
milage. Or- the most accurate way to determine(and my recommendation) what is going on
with the mixture (long term adaptive fuel trim) is to have the vehicle read out by a PWIS or
similar diagnostic tool and have the data checked. You would be looking at RKATS (fuel trim
at idle) FRAU's and FRAO's which are what determines how much fuel is injected at any
specific load or rpm range. This number on a turbo is always going to be a little rich (which
results in a slightly negative number displayed on the data read out). With our programming
the number will also be a bit more negative than stock. However if when the data is read out
and the fuel trim displays a maximum rich RKAT number ( -3.0 to -4.5 max) there is an
indication of another problem. Something like a vacuum leak, a faulty Mass air or another
issue. This read out should be done with a fault check as well to determine if any codes are
stored. We sell a tool to do this but if you are not interested in the DIY approach you may
take it to a dealer who is more than able to tell you this information. This is the only accurate
way to determine how rich the car is running (more accurately how the ECU is telling the car
to run)
#15
07-06-2008, 07:00 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,134
Rep Power: 122 Definately running rich but probably not enough to throw a CEL. What is your MAF reading at idle? Look at your LTFT readings. Do you know what plugs you are running? I assume you looked at the primary O2 sensors and they are varying between high and low?
Last edited by 1999Porsche911; 07-06-2008 at 07:05 AM.
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