I have no "surgi-ness" with my 18G's...

 

i know, i drove it : > But we should do a durametric reading while you drive, let see if your throttle body is following the right path. Curious to see what is happening after 50% throttle.

 

A thought-
I recall when Todd was doing my car he had some issues to get around.. he put on gt3 race heads with gt3 cams.... and ran gt3 code ...
everything changed... and I recall he said that a TTs cams are on or off.. no in between... could you be feeling that? even though we have vario cam it still is ON/OFF...

now my gt3 based set up doesnt have that... the TB moves with postion of the gas pedal and the cams move accordingly.... not so on the TT with stock cams...

I still think its something inherent with your car.... and if its the ecu... get you rmoney back... but before you convict someone make sure he is guilty...
Have Tony run his program and datalog it... problem solved...

just a thought...

 

Well, keep in mind, the surge issue has been diagnosed, the throttle plate goes into WOT at 51% of pedal onward, end of story. Trust me when i say, its nothing like cams shifting around, this is PUNCHING the power ! I will diag ttboost, maybe this week / or this weekend if he is freed up.

not trying to convict anyone, but no way should anyone go through all this, this is why we overpay for our ecus, to have a ecu meeting the objective, in my case it was a specific sale for smoothness, objective failed !

 

No problem...and Tony has it now and I'm sure he would see it if it was doing it...let me know whenever you wanna go out....

 

Mass air flow readings as well FYI

MAF reading values all the way through, looks healthy
Once again as pedal value passed 50%, Spec Throttle Plate opens 99% WOT

 

Dean,
You're forgetting to mention that the stock program has the exact same throttle characteristic on your car. And the fact that "The stock program doesn't run well and kicks on the abs engine lights."
We've guided you through a long term diagnostic on this car, and at many points have assumed all is well by your email returns saying "either way i am very happy with how things are at this point. " or "Now i can really feel the pedal difference that you worked with. I can modulate far more then before"
According to you we had made dramatic progress on the car, even at some point, "Now its working 100% better and the surging is 80% better."
I've continued to offer support and diagnostics to remedy this issue which appears to be inherent to your car, sent you many versions of software to work with, which you can flash back and forth with your cable at will, yet you're wanting to ship your ecu back to reflash back to stock for a refund. And at any time you can reinstall the performance software that you have at your disposal, so there's no real returning of anything...
I'm at a loss here..
Can anyone else help with this situation?

Todd Knighton
Protomotive Inc.

 

You want to run stock ECU with hybrid turbos now?

I think it's best to keep this offline if possible, could turn into a mess.

 

Not sure what his ultimate direction is. We've been working towards getting him where he wants to go for quite some time now, and have always been told that it's been positive. From changing from the garrett hybrids to the k2418gs, having our distributor Protosport sort through the car, etc. etc.
I'm currently suggesting loading a stock X50 program with the factory solenoid hooked back up to use for simple diagnostics. He's told me that the car still flags errors that way, and it shouldn't. We've run many cars with the factory programs, even with considerable mods. They're quite a bit more generous than most may believe.
Anyhow, that's just a diagnostic suggestion. Once the 'hardware' is diagnosed and working properly, stock, then going back to the performance software should be a no brainer.
I agree that I'm probably asking for a mess here.. Not really, though, just trying to be completely open and honest about a situation that is rough on both ends and eating humble pie by asking for help....
As usual, if the car were here, I'd be more than happy to take it in and work through the problems.

 

I spoke with Todd in the beginning on the phone dec '07. He insisted his product will provide smooth modulation of high horsepower. There were great details discussed over multiple phone calls explaining that I don't want to switch from Giac unless we can modulate high horsepower. I asked repeatedly before putting down the needed $8k or so in money to go in that direction.

Protosport, my local dealer who deals with modd'd cars, and a local PCA Porsche race shop have confirmed that my car is mechanically sound. They have all felt the surging as well and indicate its programming or described it as nature of the product.

I have also taken the time to learn durametrics and show everyone that the ECU goes WOT after 50%. When paying $4k for programming, i shouldn't have to battle the logistics of why this is.

I have exhausted everything asked of me to make the program work, this includes many trips to Protosport (a four hour trailer drive each direction for me, they are honestly great guys and worth the trip) . In the end the only way to calm down the surge was to put stock actuators on the 18g's and run low boost 0.6 bar. I didn't need your program to run stock levels. Yes, its eighty percent better at low power, but low power was not the goal here. And yes, if i load the stock program that expects little boost from little k16's onto 18g's, it will surge ! Thats where a "tuner", like Todd, comes into place. To tune out issues and make compatible what in other ways would not work.

I admit saying working together has gotten the issue better, but only by lowering the power.

Todd, your are trying to help out over the phone, i appreciate that support. And i appreciate the support of the forum. I am sure your program works well for thousands of porsches out there, but i lay'ed out my goals to you on the table before we started. The goals were not met, and i don't feel its fair. The refund i am seeking is only for the ecu programming, take it back, i am absorbing the hardware, labors, endless research and time.

I provide a service for many clients myself, sometimes things just don't work out and I wont charge them for a product that didn't resolve their needs. I learn from the feedback to further my expertise.

 

Dean,
We’ve battled many problems/issues with this car. Only 12 days ago did you provide me with the data that mimics what you’re feeling. That’s given me good direction. Prior to that, we’ve chase many mechanical issues, and based on your feedback, made good progress.
I was able to see similar values on the car on the dyno, albeit not creating a drivability issue, and was beginning to work with the code to generate a more linear pedal for you, but had to pull the car off before I had resolved your issues….
I know what you’re after now, I know what it’s doing based on the data we’ve seen. It’s inherent in the stock programming and something I can work around. As long as the car is 100% mechanically, God willing, I can program it. I just need a little time to find a solution.
We’ve chased many other solutions and fixed many issues with this car. I’m willing to continue working on this at no further charge if you can simply provide feedback.
BTW, it's not a given 50% either. It looks more like this
1000rpm 22% throttle pedal beyond which makes 100% throttle opening
1280rpm 25% "
1520rpm 28.56% "
1800rpm 32.59% "
2400rpm 39.49% "
3000rpm 45.57% ""
4000rpm 55.8043% ""
5000rpm 70.76% ""
6000rpm 100%
7000rpm 100%
This is the throttle angle, starting from which no more throttling takes place. There's a few more maps I have to look at, but this one mimics what we're seeing, however, making them all 100% doesn't fix the issue, it's more involved, but getting there....

 

Good stuff, I hope you guys can work this out.

 

Dean, don't give up yet. Besides, with all the work and time invested plus solutions still to be tried, you can't expect a refund...and I doubt you want to go back to stock.

 

I am hanging . . . it's been a long years worth of solutions so far, what can I say, I will leave the private details and matters to our emails and phone discussions. In regards to modulation, I will post all my results. thx guys.

 

are there any other Durametrics parameters that could better help diagnose this? like ignition timing, angle?