New GIAC/Hitachi MAF conversion kit for 996TT applications is coming soon!
#61
10-09-2008, 03:15 PM
We have all heard bad things about tuners out there, and 8 times out of 10 its the owners fault for not having the car tuned....for that given combination. I am not saying there hasn't been legitimate problems and we all know when your not taken care of how bad it feels , I am all for informing my fellow 6speeders of bad workman ship or inferior parts but its not always the " tuners fault"
Patience on both ends is the order of the day with long distance tuning. I have it and my tuner has it as well.
#62
10-09-2008, 06:35 PM
Yep, 4 mafs, I had the evoms intake with the intake waffle. There is allot controversy around the evoms intake, too much for it to be a coincidence. I dont believe this attributed to the wastegate or turbo failure. The K24 was "out of thrust" the impeller was scraping the housing, it's probably worse than it sounds.
The driver side wastegate was maxed out, simply ran out of threads, this is the side of the broken turbo. The passenger side broke at the notorious threaded bend. No idea how a metal rod could brake unless the wastegate is putting tremendous pressure on the actuator rod or the rod has a flawed design with structual fatigue by making the bend on the threads.
Here is what I was told, the broken wastegate the opposite turbo to overspin because it was trying to make up the boost difference, I dont think the GIAC program was ever "asking" for 1.2bar so as much as you adjust the W/G's, you wont get what the dme isnt asking for. (I saw .9 sustained and not much more. I did see spikes at 1.0-1.1 a couple times but that was right before everything went to hell).
Bottom line, I think the GIAC DME wasn't asking for 1.2bar, maybe a program mismatch to what was installed and environment operated. The installer had me adjusting the wastegates thinking we would eventually see 1.2 or close. I dont think the wastegate failure is a direct correlation, it just failed like many others due to faulty design (bending a threaded rod). I think being at 5000'+ altitude and 91 pump gas are variables in this, but these are supposedly taken into consideration- but I dont buy it from my experience as well as from the other previous GIAC users I have talked to.
I think what really irritated me was trying to resolve the problem, I didn't care much about blame but to get what I paid for. The installer was too passive in helping get to what was advertised and helping find a way forward, when I went to his vendors directly there were allot of finger pointing. The rest of this post would be my personal and emotional ranting so I'll just end it here.
The driver side wastegate was maxed out, simply ran out of threads, this is the side of the broken turbo. The passenger side broke at the notorious threaded bend. No idea how a metal rod could brake unless the wastegate is putting tremendous pressure on the actuator rod or the rod has a flawed design with structual fatigue by making the bend on the threads.
Here is what I was told, the broken wastegate the opposite turbo to overspin because it was trying to make up the boost difference, I dont think the GIAC program was ever "asking" for 1.2bar so as much as you adjust the W/G's, you wont get what the dme isnt asking for. (I saw .9 sustained and not much more. I did see spikes at 1.0-1.1 a couple times but that was right before everything went to hell).
Bottom line, I think the GIAC DME wasn't asking for 1.2bar, maybe a program mismatch to what was installed and environment operated. The installer had me adjusting the wastegates thinking we would eventually see 1.2 or close. I dont think the wastegate failure is a direct correlation, it just failed like many others due to faulty design (bending a threaded rod). I think being at 5000'+ altitude and 91 pump gas are variables in this, but these are supposedly taken into consideration- but I dont buy it from my experience as well as from the other previous GIAC users I have talked to.
I think what really irritated me was trying to resolve the problem, I didn't care much about blame but to get what I paid for. The installer was too passive in helping get to what was advertised and helping find a way forward, when I went to his vendors directly there were allot of finger pointing. The rest of this post would be my personal and emotional ranting so I'll just end it here.
as for the MAF's obviously someone is at fault for that as well...
Bottom line is that you paid for tuning and parts that you did not get (you did get, but they failed). As far as I am concerned you need to be repayed for whatever was broken or blown and it does not seem that you have been. Pretty much does not leave any faith with those that provided the kit and installed it
#63
10-09-2008, 06:42 PM
Well, how about a messed up news I just heard from my tuner. A water leak from my headers. Speed Gallery has drilled the whole wrong into the water jacket. This is why I will not go back to anyone that messes up with me the first time. You get one try with me and that is it. What kind of company drills holes into water jackets. How about telling the customer on what happened, where is the loyalty? I guess all along Thomas has been dead on with Speed Gallery's set up. This is very dissapointing.
Last edited by art4iza; 10-10-2008 at 10:10 PM. Reason: personal
#65
10-09-2008, 07:09 PM
[quote=art4iza;2079975]Well, how about a messed up news I just heard from my tuner. A water leak from my headers. Speed Gallery has drilled the whole wrong into the water jacket. quote]Hon?
What were they drilling holes for?Do you mean in the head?Sorry either way.
What were they drilling holes for?Do you mean in the head?Sorry either way.
#66
10-09-2008, 09:38 PM
I wasnt told to directly "max it out" by the installer but more adjustments over time that led to one side being maxed out. Yep, I agree something definitely wrong with this picture, including the mafs. I heard from the installer today, we will see what happens.
WOA!!?? I failed to read this completely. you mean that you were told to turn the waste gates all the way? Isn't that what's wrong, right there. I have read in many different turbo forums, tuners talking about waste gate adjustment and typically they all say to keep it to less than 4 turns which still leaves plenty of thread. Sounds to me like whomever directed you to turn the waste gates should explain why. Maybe some of the experts can say difinitively about this. Is it ok to turn the waste gates to the point where there is no thread left, isn't this dangerous?
as for the MAF's obviously someone is at fault for that as well...
Bottom line is that you paid for tuning and parts that you did not get (you did get, but they failed). As far as I am concerned you need to be repayed for whatever was broken or blown and it does not seem that you have been. Pretty much does not leave any faith with those that provided the kit and installed it
as for the MAF's obviously someone is at fault for that as well...
Bottom line is that you paid for tuning and parts that you did not get (you did get, but they failed). As far as I am concerned you need to be repayed for whatever was broken or blown and it does not seem that you have been. Pretty much does not leave any faith with those that provided the kit and installed it
#67
10-09-2008, 10:25 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In a Canyon - Really :)
Posts: 4,880
Rep Power: 288 
Not here to debate anyone's experiences. Just adding mine.
My car can run 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3 BAR in the midrange all day with one turn of the wastegates (in either direction). My wastegates were upgraded at speed gallery in house. They cut open my stock ones, replaced the spring and clamped it shut with an O ring clamp that screws together. Like two washers holding the wastegate together. Ever since then, I have been ecstatic with the performance. Stock wastegate springs are simply not up to the task on K24 cars trying to achieve 1.2 BAR. It usually ends up at 1.1 at redline. I have been very happy with the GIAC setup for 3 years.
I will say that this happened 3 years ago after I flashed my car at a different shop (who cranked my stock wastegates). I just thought it didn't feel right until speed gallery suggested the wasetgate upgrade. It really woke the car up, especially in the midrange.
The issues of broken wastegate rods has been debated a lot here. It seems that 1. They are usually EVO complete new wategates, 2. they bind and the rod breaks (for whatever reason, poor design, weak metal, or bad install). Who knows.
I blew a few MAFs with the evo intake and things have been much better with the factory waffle upgrade. I did blow one MAF after 10K miles.
I want to point out that everyone seemed to have and LOVE EVO 700 kits that were 100% GIAC powered and seemed pretty happy with them. Now that EVO has their own program (and they don't have to pay GIAC a cut) all of a sudden the GIAC is not as good as it once was. I don't know the facts but it smells weird....
My car can run 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3 BAR in the midrange all day with one turn of the wastegates (in either direction). My wastegates were upgraded at speed gallery in house. They cut open my stock ones, replaced the spring and clamped it shut with an O ring clamp that screws together. Like two washers holding the wastegate together. Ever since then, I have been ecstatic with the performance. Stock wastegate springs are simply not up to the task on K24 cars trying to achieve 1.2 BAR. It usually ends up at 1.1 at redline. I have been very happy with the GIAC setup for 3 years.
I will say that this happened 3 years ago after I flashed my car at a different shop (who cranked my stock wastegates). I just thought it didn't feel right until speed gallery suggested the wasetgate upgrade. It really woke the car up, especially in the midrange.
The issues of broken wastegate rods has been debated a lot here. It seems that 1. They are usually EVO complete new wategates, 2. they bind and the rod breaks (for whatever reason, poor design, weak metal, or bad install). Who knows.
I blew a few MAFs with the evo intake and things have been much better with the factory waffle upgrade. I did blow one MAF after 10K miles.
I want to point out that everyone seemed to have and LOVE EVO 700 kits that were 100% GIAC powered and seemed pretty happy with them. Now that EVO has their own program (and they don't have to pay GIAC a cut) all of a sudden the GIAC is not as good as it once was. I don't know the facts but it smells weird....
Last edited by Turbo Fanatic; 10-09-2008 at 10:46 PM.
#68
10-09-2008, 10:27 PM
That's good to hear - come out to Denver and try it :-)
Edit: This probably sounded like I was being an ***, not my intention- I actually am happy for his ari's experience. I think mine would have ran ok at sea level, at least until the wastegate broke :-( running at 5000+ is a whole different ball game.
Edit: This probably sounded like I was being an ***, not my intention- I actually am happy for his ari's experience. I think mine would have ran ok at sea level, at least until the wastegate broke :-( running at 5000+ is a whole different ball game.
Last edited by DEEPBLUE; 10-09-2008 at 10:31 PM.
#70
10-09-2008, 11:46 PM
Got back from GIAC kinda late. We installed the Hitachi MAF and started some adjustments. I had some 100 octane in the car so we tested a little and I'm going back tomorrow. One thing we tested was a cut-off problem in 1st gear that some cars with 700hp+ were having. It feels like the rev-limiter or a misfire. Since I am a customer now I wanted to look into it, see why and get it fixed. GIAC hooked up a PWIS tester and logged the RPM's while next to the tach. The car would rev-up so fast that it would hit the 7k RPM red line (shown on the tester) before the tach got there. So it looks like it's not an issue (with the motor and ecu at least). I was told that the info goes to the cluster in packets and in it's not getting there as fast as the motor is revving up. The car is just accelerating so fast that the tach does not catch up in 1st gear. Garret's GT700 was worst than my car due to worn tires.
Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90c-NVEWIIU
At the end you will see how the tach is around 6000 and the car is actually revving 7029. Sometimes (while cold) this would occur at 5500.
Tomorrow I will post driving impressions and dyno's hopefully.
Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90c-NVEWIIU
At the end you will see how the tach is around 6000 and the car is actually revving 7029. Sometimes (while cold) this would occur at 5500.
Tomorrow I will post driving impressions and dyno's hopefully.
Last edited by SamboTT@ByDesign; 10-10-2008 at 12:14 AM.
#71
10-09-2008, 11:52 PM
Art...Whoa! I pm'd you. Can you send me pics? I would send them to Dan and see what he thinks. Do you mean the heads? Does it look a like a drill mark?
I'm posting here for GIAC. They are on the tuning side. By the way if you are getting out of your SG700 kit Andrew is willing to work something out with you on selling your file. That is why he is trying to contact you. Hope you sort it out.
I'm posting here for GIAC. They are on the tuning side. By the way if you are getting out of your SG700 kit Andrew is willing to work something out with you on selling your file. That is why he is trying to contact you. Hope you sort it out.
#72
10-09-2008, 11:52 PM
sorry to hear about the problems u having Art. i feel u bro n good luck with ur new set-up. hang in there i'm sure ur NEW SET UP WONT LET U LOOSE ANY SLEEP TIME. Now all u gotta do is start the car (filllll up 1 zero 9 VP) n GO...
Last edited by yllwturbo; 10-10-2008 at 09:17 AM.
#74
10-10-2008, 12:18 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In a Canyon - Really :)
Posts: 4,880
Rep Power: 288
Possiblay... 
I have to call the leasing company and see if they are willing to take market valuye on the buyout. I don't think my car with 25K miles is worth $50K is it? I'm going to offer them 40K.
I wish I had already decided. I'm going to Asia for two weeks, it would have been nice to come back to a much faster car...
I have to call the leasing company and see if they are willing to take market valuye on the buyout. I don't think my car with 25K miles is worth $50K is it? I'm going to offer them 40K.I wish I had already decided. I'm going to Asia for two weeks, it would have been nice to come back to a much faster car...
#75
10-10-2008, 12:22 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In a Canyon - Really :)
Posts: 4,880
Rep Power: 288
Didn't realize you were in denver. At least be happy you have turbos. You must have the fastest car around up there....
That's good to hear - come out to Denver and try it :-)
Edit: This probably sounded like I was being an ***, not my intention- I actually am happy for his ari's experience. I think mine would have ran ok at sea level, at least until the wastegate broke :-( running at 5000+ is a whole different ball game.
Edit: This probably sounded like I was being an ***, not my intention- I actually am happy for his ari's experience. I think mine would have ran ok at sea level, at least until the wastegate broke :-( running at 5000+ is a whole different ball game.