Problems, problems, problems huh.

In this market you can be aggressive with the buy out. I t's been a while since I have not looked for some time not but I think if you have an 02 X-50 (if I remember correctly) under 50k you are good. The lower the better of'course. If not X-50 under 45k in good. Cheaper cars are high milage and/or crap usually.

 

Deepblue, did you ever figure out why your turbo failed? If your compressor wheel is thrusting into your compressor housing it could be attributed to:

1) Compressor surge~ When the charge air is in the intake tract and butterfly in the throttle body closes shut the air hits it and travels backward though the intake tract all the way to the compressor housing. At this point it hits the compressor wheel causing compressor surge which over time thrusts the compressor wheel into the compressor housing. The reason why this happens is an ailing or insufficient bypass/blowoff valve or vacuum line to the bypass/blowoff valve.

2) Insufficient oiling to the turbo's CHRA (Center Housing Rotating Assembly), the center shaft and the thrust bearings are dependent on riding "contact free" is a bath of oil. If the oil supply becomes insufficient, thrust bearing failure is almost guaranteed.

3) Cooling and Coking~ When you get to your destination, before turning off your car do you allow it to idle for a little while before shutting it off? When you shut the car off immediately the oil sits inside a superheated turbo. While the turbo and the oil cools it cooks the oil, this is called coking. The coked oil will turn into a hard white calcium like substance that adheres to your rotating parts in the CHRA. This is a gradual process that occurs over time, but it will cause the center shaft and Turbine/Compressor wheel to become unbalanced which will lead to thrust bearing failure which causes one or more wheels to thrust into its respective housing.

4) Balance~ I just explained one way this can be compromised. Is there any chance that your turbo's internals were improperly balanced from the beginning? There is no way you would be able to know unless you checked for shaft play before installing the turbos.

When your MAFs failed, did any of them suffer a physical failure? Is there anyway a piece of the MAF broke, came off, etc... and it was ingested by the turbo. If so, your compressor wheel would have been dinked, this would most likely cause a couple of chips to the wheel which would lead to an imbalance in the rotating assembly. That in turn would lead to thrust bearing failure and eventual failure of the turbo.

 

Well, my story will not end here. My engine is being looked at this minute. I will post pictures and show you the assessment. This is not going to be good for SG. You asked then you will see what happened. My guess for right now: SG maybe ok to do business with for cars going up to 500HP, but they do not have any idea what goes into the motor work when it goes up to 700kit. Not to mention, SG 700kits put down 490HP on Dyno Dynamics. Look at the result for proto and EVO, are they even close to SG? It is going to be bad turn out for SG. Although some cars turned out to be ok with SG but there are some that are not running right.

 

uhhh, he's got no turbo's that's the problem

 

Sam,
We are checking the Turbochargers, there is no water lines on them. I thought these were supposed to be the ball bearing ones. What am I missing from this picture?

 

Sorry to hear, Art. I left you a message.

Seems like this thread has gotten busy since i last been here...

 

I dont know, I'll let you know when its running

 

What I am told is that the driver side turbo was damaged from the passenger side evoms wastegate breaking at the the bend on the threaded rod (there have been quite a few failures), sending the driver side turbo into overspin.

No physical damage from the broken mafs, I believe these are more an electronics (volage/current/resistance) failure vs physical. the wheels are not damaged to my knowledge.

The turbo builder checked for oil problems, none found. I believe the installer checked the turbos prior to install so doubt there was a problem there. I also let the turbos warm before spirited driving and cool for a couple minutes afterwards- I've had a few turbo cars before and familiar with the possible damages by not taking preventative precautions.

You make some good points, for those folks where this is their first turbo, this is very good information.

 

Hey Art. Hope things smoothe out with your car situation. I beleive you got gt28 non ball bearing as you did not want to install the water system. You should check the invoice. But just to let you know the major diff. is a little spool. Maybe 2-300 rpm.

Let me know how it all works out.

 

Hey guys I will keep it short as we still want to play with my car. I am getting the crack-head HP bug like zulu had it. I want more now but Garrett and Andrew keep reminding me of the stock rods. The Hitachi runs great and maybe even better than the car ever has. Crisper and quicker. Now I can play with intakes with no issues.

I learned one big thing today guys that's very important. There are many exhausts out there that are good sounding fine for 5-600hp. I had a Remus 70mm and love the sound. Past 1.2 bar and 600 hp there is lot's of back pressure. I will need to upgrade as we can't get that 594AWTQ we did before (with high octane race mode) with the race exhaust that was on the car. Looking into options and will try again. We measured 6+psi back pressure at ~ 550 to the wheels. A good system should be around 3-4 psi. This is leaving HP on the table and we don't like that.

The MAF upgrade is nice and not even too pricey. I believe that GIAC will post pricing soon.

I am also very excited to test with the IPD 75mm plenum and t-body. I have sold many and had good feedback but now I can see how good.

I also would like to add that the crew at GIAC has been very supportive and plan to work with this changing market with all the new hardware and turbo's. Tons more software and development as long as product testing in progress to give GIAC customers more wiggle room with all these new a-la-cart availabilities from good manufacturers. Keep you all posted.

 

The car drove great this weekend but now it's in my head that there ia a power loss on the exhaust. Looks I will be meeting with Turbo Mike from IPD tomorrow and try to get on a dyno. Maybe we can bug GIAC again. And the exhaust hunt is on.

Keep you posted.

 

Thanks Sam for your follow up. I also want to thank you for helping me with the Giac situation. I know you are in a tough spot in between all this. Hope it will all work out at the end.

 

This is a VERY old thread. Old enough that technology has literally passed up some of these issues. IE Not many people are blowing up stock MAFs above 1.2 BAR like used to be the case. That said at about 1.2 BAR you are at the limit of the stock MAF's reporting capacity. It's pegged, pure and simple.

I have a Hitachi MAF with a host of mods and LOVE, LOVE the way the car runs. From cold start, to low rpm cruise, to throttle response, to full boost on a hot or cold day this car feels incredibly drivable and has precise responses to driver inputs. Just as good as any turbo delivered by Porsche. Did I mention I can get 1.3 BAR by 3,000 RPM?

I think tuners have learned to limit the MAF voltage keep it from popping like a light bulb with too much wattage, but that has to mean that after a certain point they are extrapolating airflow and the associated fuel needs from intake air temp, the 02 sensors and such. This certainly works, but has to be missing some "detail" which invariably means less power.

There has to be reason why GIAC adapted the Hitachi, EVO uses it (took the GIAC Hitachi concept as far as I can see after their breaking off and doing in-house tuning) and Protomotive have moved to Ford Blow-thru MAF setups. Precision. If your MAf can precisely read how much air you're taking in, you are no longer guessing (or extrapolating). That has to mean better drive ability, at least at full throttle.

I'm neither an engineer, or tuner (at least not a tuner beyond being an enthusiast) but I have tinkered enough with my car enough to know that something as simple as a maladjusted waste gate can make your car's power band feel sluggish and muddy.

In the end I'm happy with GIAC because they worked with me to get the most of my setup which is pretty far off the reservation compared to just a flash. The culprit for me was simply a waste-gate that wasn't tightened enough and was bleeding boost at 1.2 BAR (the computer was requesting 1.3, but the waste-gate spring wasn't tight enough and leaking prematurely) I'm not running GT30s, GT35s or A28 Alphas, but I know the car is running well enough on these turbos. It's not the fastest car out there but it's got the K16 type spool (1.3 BAR at 3,000 RPM) and is fast and reliable as hell. It also has a race gas mode +50 HP GIAC's philosophy (and I'm taking some liberty here) is 1. Keep it reliable 2. Make it street-able and track-able 3. make it fast. That's what I want for my $20K engine. Others might want something a bit more extreme with some inherent (maybe not too risky) risks.

The moral of the story:

1. Pick a tuner that is reputable and preferably local enough for you to visit
2. pick an installer that is reputable and has done this before and can work with your tuner
3. The minute you start going with injectors, big turbos, inter-cooling Y pipes, water cooling, Aftermarket waste-gates, Exhaust - you are now tinkering with so many variables that you need a professional (or at least someone who has done this a few times) to troubleshoot your setup.

Most systems are cobbled together by owners and almost never exactly the same parts and is sooo different than just getting a flash and diverters that you SHOULD expect a period of troubleshooting. Likely your car will be faster, but it won't be the fastest the first day you drive it off the lot. Unless that is, you drop off you car and say "I'll see you in a month" please make sure it's tested in every situation = Big $$$

I haven't singled out a single tuner. Just saying that people have different needs, budgets and as such gravitate to the tuner which is most accessible and best match. I would much rather drive 40 minutes to my tuner than deal with a tuner that is 12 hours drive away or if worse 6 days shipping if something doesn't feel right.

 

ibp motor sports did my giac flash a few years ago have the 100oct set up and stock, it's a dream works fine i seldom run 91 oct but can change the flash if i'm stuck with 91 oct. but well theres always a but anything new for my 01? has es cargo lg tube headers evo air box,kevins k16 hybreds,pipeing to the turbos, giac tune, blow off valve europipe loud, sure there is something else but have forgotten