GMG compared to ERP
#1
11-25-2008, 03:43 PM
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GMG compared to ERP
Hey Guys!
I am planning on getting the Toe Steer Kit and the Dog Bone Kit on my car and I was wondering if anybody have any praise/comments on the ERP ones compared to the GMG ones. From the pictures it seems that the ERP dog bones looks very similar to the GMG ones and I know ERP does manufacturing for lots of companies. Any advice would be appreciated. Anybody know any good sites to get them for good prices?
Thanks
Jason
I am planning on getting the Toe Steer Kit and the Dog Bone Kit on my car and I was wondering if anybody have any praise/comments on the ERP ones compared to the GMG ones. From the pictures it seems that the ERP dog bones looks very similar to the GMG ones and I know ERP does manufacturing for lots of companies. Any advice would be appreciated. Anybody know any good sites to get them for good prices?
Thanks
Jason
#2
11-25-2008, 05:51 PM
RSS Suspension Line
Hey There Jason,
Our brand new RSS Porsche Suspension Line wasn't due to launch until next week but your thread inspired us to do a little Thanksgiving pre-launch. Just like the entire RSS product line, all components are manufactured in house at our facility in Orange County, California. We have been manufacturing suspension components for many other European Tuner shops under private label names for years. Please feel free to drop us a PM with any questions or to place an order. All parts are in stock and ready to ship.
Cheers,
Greg
Our brand new RSS Porsche Suspension Line wasn't due to launch until next week but your thread inspired us to do a little Thanksgiving pre-launch. Just like the entire RSS product line, all components are manufactured in house at our facility in Orange County, California. We have been manufacturing suspension components for many other European Tuner shops under private label names for years. Please feel free to drop us a PM with any questions or to place an order. All parts are in stock and ready to ship.
Cheers,
Greg
#4
11-25-2008, 09:06 PM
Whoa , cant wait to see what folks think of the RSS products. I've been hearing a lot of good things about it.
#6
11-26-2008, 06:47 AM
Hey There Jason,
Our brand new RSS Porsche Suspension Line wasn't due to launch until next week but your thread inspired us to do a little Thanksgiving pre-launch. Just like the entire RSS product line, all components are manufactured in house at our facility in Orange County, California. We have been manufacturing suspension components for many other European Tuner shops under private label names for years. Please feel free to drop us a PM with any questions or to place an order. All parts are in stock and ready to ship.
Cheers,
Greg
Our brand new RSS Porsche Suspension Line wasn't due to launch until next week but your thread inspired us to do a little Thanksgiving pre-launch. Just like the entire RSS product line, all components are manufactured in house at our facility in Orange County, California. We have been manufacturing suspension components for many other European Tuner shops under private label names for years. Please feel free to drop us a PM with any questions or to place an order. All parts are in stock and ready to ship.
Cheers,
Greg
Hey Greg:
I wonder if you have adjustable drop link for 996TT to install 996GT3's sway bar? Tks!
#7
11-26-2008, 04:38 PM
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To answer your question ERP does manufacture the GMG parts in the photo to their requested specs so, it is a little different.
When we were developing these in the early 2000’s at 24 hours of Le Mans we found there was a problem with “off the shelf” rodends and they would fail prematurely. We eventually found the problem and not have the rodends built to our spec now and have not had any failures since that time. The failure is not catastrophic but, it will make the car rattle and squeak if the modification isn’t performed.
I don’t really know anything about the CPP version so I can’t comment on those but, it looks like a fully functional part. I am disappointed to see that RSS has blatantly reproduced our Copyrighted profiles in their links and housings that we’ve been making since 1999. In the picture you see of their ad that is a copy of our new 997 Copyrighted that we made for GMG just a few months ago so, I’m not sure how they got hold of that.
Something to keep in mind when you are looking at buying exact copy’s. Since we have our own CNC equipment and own our building that we run with very low overhead. I think its fair to assume if they sell my parts for less than we do, they are likely using less cheaper unproven rodends.
Over the years people have come to us early on for solutions because we have the engineering ability and the racing experience needed to handle their needs. ERP is a passionate company in that we not only want to make the parts work better but, we design them as we would/do for out own cars to look nice too. Greg at RSS, do you guys not have any imagination at all?? Come on.. this is not a business that anyone gets rich on. Why don’t you try to come up with your own ideas or at least your own designs or better yet, just buy the parts from us and we’ll likely save you some money in the process.
When we were developing these in the early 2000’s at 24 hours of Le Mans we found there was a problem with “off the shelf” rodends and they would fail prematurely. We eventually found the problem and not have the rodends built to our spec now and have not had any failures since that time. The failure is not catastrophic but, it will make the car rattle and squeak if the modification isn’t performed.
I don’t really know anything about the CPP version so I can’t comment on those but, it looks like a fully functional part. I am disappointed to see that RSS has blatantly reproduced our Copyrighted profiles in their links and housings that we’ve been making since 1999. In the picture you see of their ad that is a copy of our new 997 Copyrighted that we made for GMG just a few months ago so, I’m not sure how they got hold of that.
Something to keep in mind when you are looking at buying exact copy’s. Since we have our own CNC equipment and own our building that we run with very low overhead. I think its fair to assume if they sell my parts for less than we do, they are likely using less cheaper unproven rodends.
Over the years people have come to us early on for solutions because we have the engineering ability and the racing experience needed to handle their needs. ERP is a passionate company in that we not only want to make the parts work better but, we design them as we would/do for out own cars to look nice too. Greg at RSS, do you guys not have any imagination at all?? Come on.. this is not a business that anyone gets rich on. Why don’t you try to come up with your own ideas or at least your own designs or better yet, just buy the parts from us and we’ll likely save you some money in the process.
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#8
11-29-2008, 02:01 PM
I don’t really know anything about the CPP version so I can’t comment on those but, it looks like a fully functional part. I am disappointed to see that RSS has blatantly reproduced our Copyrighted profiles in their links and housings that we’ve been making since 1999. In the picture you see of their ad that is a copy of our new 997 Copyrighted that we made for GMG just a few months ago so, I’m not sure how they got hold of that.
Well. we've been manufacturing all the above suspension components for almost 2 years in our in-house manufacturing facility. The parts have been street tested and track tortured with many of our Stuttgart Performance customer before we made them available for the masses through RSS. We even meet with GMG over a year ago, well before you ever manufactured parts to their "spec". We even brought laser engraved GMG samples for their review.
I would love see the copyrighted material if you care to post it. This isn't exactly rocket science we're talking here.
Something to keep in mind when you are looking at buying exact copy’s. Since we have our own CNC equipment and own our building that we run with very low overhead.
That's a bold statement coming from someone who has no knowledge of our capabilities or business model. I don't want to get into a, "Whose got the bigger d**k contest", but our 30,000 square foot facility is 100% dedicated to manufacturing the highest quality performance parts available anywhere. We own and operate an Okuma Lathe with live tooling, milling capability and bar feed, CNC Hurco lathe with bar feed, CNC Haas Lathe, 2 Hurco mills both with 4 axis ability, Omax Water Jet, Fully functional machine and fabrication including tube bending capabilities and the newest member of the family is a State-of-the-art Rapid prototype Machine which enable us to test prototype pieces with ABS+ parts. We've tested a variety of prototype parts including Intercooler end tanks, Under drive pullies, Manifolds, Plenums, Rotor Hats as well as suspension parts of course.
I think its fair to assume if they sell my parts for less than we do, they are likely using less cheaper unproven rodends.
Again, that's a big assumption. We don't sell "your" parts. The complete RSS Porsche suspension line is as good as it gets, it's in stock, it's ready to ship, it's manufactured to the highest quality specs in the industry and it's reasonably priced because we manufacture in bulk, not just a few at a time.
Over the years people have come to us early on for solutions because we have the engineering ability and the racing experience needed to handle their needs. ERP is a passionate company in that we not only want to make the parts work better but, we design them as we would/do for out own cars to look nice too.
Over the years we have also received many requests from customers demanding premium quality performance parts from a qualified outfit. These customers also demand fast turn around times and solid customer service. Our products are in stock and usually ship the same day the order is placed. I'd say that's pretty reasonable turn around time. Better, Faster, Lower Cost? Not a bad combination.
Greg at RSS, do you guys not have any imagination at all?? Come on.. this is not a business that anyone gets rich on. Why don’t you try to come up with your own ideas or at least your own designs
Well we've managed to create and improve all kinds of unique performance parts including the IPD Plenum, 2 piece direct replacement floating rotors (front and rear) for all late model Porsches that allow you to utilize your e-brake. We manufacture all kinds of diverter valves, under drive pulleys and components all under very reputable private label names.
or better yet, just buy the parts from us and we’ll likely save you some money in the process.
Actually, I was thinking you could purchase these from us and we could save you money in the process. We'll even drop ship your back orders for you.
Greg
#9
11-29-2008, 03:23 PM
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Oh my … are you blasting me Greg?
Say what you want, the bottom line is the same. Look at your pictures you posted and you will see ERP parts and ERP designs. Clear and simple you are nothing more than a rip off. Accept it and leave it at that.
Btw, I too have a 4 Axis CNC mill and a 29 hp CNC lathe in my shop along with a bunch of other equipment. Only thing is, I don’t have the overhead of 30,000 square feet. Since I too make parts in house so, unless you plan to lose money you simply have higher cost than I do.
However, none of that really matters at this point. I don’t care if you make parts, it’s just seems really small of you to blatantly rip off ERP’s designs and lay ANY claims what so ever. While I DO agree with you in that ERP does make the most innovative and highest quality parts otherwise you wouldn’t have chosen us to rip off and while they do say imitation is the highest form or flattery you’re still just copying our parts. You say you’ve been making my parts for 2 years now and earlier you said you were just announcing your new line? By the I’m quite certain you haven’t had that 997 thrust bushing you have pictured there for two years because I just designed it 6 months ago. Are you being totally truthful here or maybe stretching it a little?
When ERP looks at an application we think about how we can come up with a better solution. We don’t look at an existing market, try to find the best and most proven part and then copy it. When I look at the CPP product shown on the first page I see it as their solution and then as a competitor it’s my job to convince buy’s why I would feel ours is better but, I don’t copy them or attack them their efforts. We ourselves are driven by and understand competition; after all it’s the American way. RSS … do as you please but, it would be so much nicer to see you coming in as a real competitor rather than a rip off artist.
By the way, at least one of the parts show in the picture above is our older part which has since been updated so, you’re now telling us you have tons of out dated parts in inventory … nice. Hmmm, I guess that might be some of the differences in buying from a company that actually designs and engineers their part verses a company can only copy stuff. Even if it means you have to wait a few weeks for the latest and greatest. Like the new Blackberry? Gee nobody waited for that did they??? Maybe you can make a copy of that now
Kindest Regards,
Say what you want, the bottom line is the same. Look at your pictures you posted and you will see ERP parts and ERP designs. Clear and simple you are nothing more than a rip off. Accept it and leave it at that.
Btw, I too have a 4 Axis CNC mill and a 29 hp CNC lathe in my shop along with a bunch of other equipment. Only thing is, I don’t have the overhead of 30,000 square feet. Since I too make parts in house so, unless you plan to lose money you simply have higher cost than I do.
However, none of that really matters at this point. I don’t care if you make parts, it’s just seems really small of you to blatantly rip off ERP’s designs and lay ANY claims what so ever. While I DO agree with you in that ERP does make the most innovative and highest quality parts otherwise you wouldn’t have chosen us to rip off and while they do say imitation is the highest form or flattery you’re still just copying our parts. You say you’ve been making my parts for 2 years now and earlier you said you were just announcing your new line? By the I’m quite certain you haven’t had that 997 thrust bushing you have pictured there for two years because I just designed it 6 months ago. Are you being totally truthful here or maybe stretching it a little?
When ERP looks at an application we think about how we can come up with a better solution. We don’t look at an existing market, try to find the best and most proven part and then copy it. When I look at the CPP product shown on the first page I see it as their solution and then as a competitor it’s my job to convince buy’s why I would feel ours is better but, I don’t copy them or attack them their efforts. We ourselves are driven by and understand competition; after all it’s the American way. RSS … do as you please but, it would be so much nicer to see you coming in as a real competitor rather than a rip off artist.
By the way, at least one of the parts show in the picture above is our older part which has since been updated so, you’re now telling us you have tons of out dated parts in inventory … nice. Hmmm, I guess that might be some of the differences in buying from a company that actually designs and engineers their part verses a company can only copy stuff. Even if it means you have to wait a few weeks for the latest and greatest. Like the new Blackberry? Gee nobody waited for that did they??? Maybe you can make a copy of that now
Kindest Regards,
#10
11-29-2008, 04:48 PM
This is good, Popcorn anyone.
More than likely both great parts and both great guys. But who would not wont to protect ones interest and investment in any design.
Careful guys no better way to loose customers than to start bashing another mans company. It seems better from a custumers point of view to here what makes yours product better, bigger or stronger than another product rather than to bash.
More than likely both great parts and both great guys. But who would not wont to protect ones interest and investment in any design.
Careful guys no better way to loose customers than to start bashing another mans company. It seems better from a custumers point of view to here what makes yours product better, bigger or stronger than another product rather than to bash.
Last edited by heeltoe914; 11-29-2008 at 04:52 PM.
#12
11-29-2008, 07:48 PM
There is no comparison here, guys. ERP/Cary is the best in the suspension business, bar none.
Cary has supported race teams at all levels from Rolex and Speed GT and POC to big money race series like ALMS, FIA GT, 24H LeMans, etc. He is a pioneer and innovator, and quite frankly has even taught Porsche Motorsports a thing or two (it is my belief that they've also copied some of Cary's stuff but that's another story). Cary taught me about different uprights and suspension geometrys and roll centers well before Porsche figured it out and started implementing it on their race cars (look at the evolution between the GT3 R to RS to RSR, then to 997 Cup and RSR), then their street cars.
I don't know too much about RSS and Stuttgart Performance, but I really doubt that they have the racing credentials and experience of Cary. Very, very, very few people do. He is in a league of his own, up there in the same category as people like Robert Linton/Cartridge.
I hope all the uber enthusiasts out there support ERP. We need companies like this to thrive. While it is true that Cary is so busy with race stuff that it's hard to get a hold of him at times, it is a testament to the huge demand for his services. I would encourage people who care about quality and engineering to support his products. I am also confident that Cary will always stay ahead of the knock-off competitors since he has first hand access to cutting-edge race technology and development.
The only suspension hardware I would ever consider for my car is ERP or Porsche Motorsports. Period.
Cary, if you ever want to use my GT2 for development, let me know and I'll bring it by.
Cary has supported race teams at all levels from Rolex and Speed GT and POC to big money race series like ALMS, FIA GT, 24H LeMans, etc. He is a pioneer and innovator, and quite frankly has even taught Porsche Motorsports a thing or two (it is my belief that they've also copied some of Cary's stuff but that's another story). Cary taught me about different uprights and suspension geometrys and roll centers well before Porsche figured it out and started implementing it on their race cars (look at the evolution between the GT3 R to RS to RSR, then to 997 Cup and RSR), then their street cars.
I don't know too much about RSS and Stuttgart Performance, but I really doubt that they have the racing credentials and experience of Cary. Very, very, very few people do. He is in a league of his own, up there in the same category as people like Robert Linton/Cartridge.
I hope all the uber enthusiasts out there support ERP. We need companies like this to thrive. While it is true that Cary is so busy with race stuff that it's hard to get a hold of him at times, it is a testament to the huge demand for his services. I would encourage people who care about quality and engineering to support his products. I am also confident that Cary will always stay ahead of the knock-off competitors since he has first hand access to cutting-edge race technology and development.
The only suspension hardware I would ever consider for my car is ERP or Porsche Motorsports. Period.
Cary, if you ever want to use my GT2 for development, let me know and I'll bring it by.
Last edited by Hamann7; 11-29-2008 at 07:56 PM.
#13
11-29-2008, 09:57 PM
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I've typed a few things here and then deleted them.
I know Greg and RSS are top notch. I also don't see how there could be too much variation in the dog bones. As Greg says, it's not rocket science (and I'm SO sorry for thinking this, and I don't mean to belittle this suspension artistry at all. I have NO idea, I'm sure).
I also know that ERP, though I didn't actually know I could buy from them (but I DO have the GMG stuff... all of it, so I guess I do have ERP stuff) is like some master magician for track cars. I'd be pissed if it WAS rocket science, someone took my designs and competed against me, and then some dude in a black car came out and said that my rocket science WASN'T.
I want more of this thread. Not as a spectator, but as a businessman and consumer of 911 goods (for a LONG time to come too...)
I'd love to see this conversation go civil and still progress through.
I know Greg and RSS are top notch. I also don't see how there could be too much variation in the dog bones. As Greg says, it's not rocket science (and I'm SO sorry for thinking this, and I don't mean to belittle this suspension artistry at all. I have NO idea, I'm sure).
I also know that ERP, though I didn't actually know I could buy from them (but I DO have the GMG stuff... all of it, so I guess I do have ERP stuff) is like some master magician for track cars. I'd be pissed if it WAS rocket science, someone took my designs and competed against me, and then some dude in a black car came out and said that my rocket science WASN'T.
I want more of this thread. Not as a spectator, but as a businessman and consumer of 911 goods (for a LONG time to come too...)
I'd love to see this conversation go civil and still progress through.
Last edited by blakt out; 11-29-2008 at 09:59 PM.
#15
11-29-2008, 11:19 PM
where exactly can i go to look up all this suspension setups? ive been trying to pick out something for the car and can't get anything solid.