Chad:

I'm with you. GIAC can go to hell.

I had a long talk with Todd @ Protomotive today and I sure hope they fix your 1.3 TBC problem, because I am running into the exact same thing as you are. Todd seems pretty confident he can solve it, it's just a matter of time. Once he solves yours, he will upgrade my software as well.

Then I am going to seriously kick some ***. Especially those Meridian cars-- I really have it out for them now.

If that's not enough, Wilber and I will keep tuning the car until those GIAC ***** bow down and go back to tuning rice rockets... I will also talk to my friends at PowerChip as well and put some great minds together to come up with a solution for both of us.

For the record, I have nothing against Todd Z. @ EVOMS as he is a really nice guy and a friend of Wilber's, and Stephen @ Imagine is cool too.

But whereas the Porsche world was a happy place with friendly "coopetition," you have guys like Garrett Lim @ GIAC and Matt @ Meridian who want to start a tuning war.

So be it. In the end they will lose.

 

This thread is approaching 100 posts and 2000 views. Enough words - pick the place and time. A lot of us are very interested in the results. And agree on a criteria - dyno, track, drag strip - but let's get some wheel to wheel comparision.

 

Heck, with all that trash talking above, nothing short of a little A.J. Foyt-style pugilism will suffice. But please, avoid A.J.'s most infamous move Porsche move - ramming the car of a fellow IMSA GTP competitor after the latter took him out of the race with an overly ambitious move.

P.S. Will race for food. If anyone needs a driver for the road race portion of the competition, I'll gladly donate my time for the good of the cause. Resume upon request.

 

Dude, I have been waiting for what seems like a long time for this Shootout to occur... I'm just waiting for all the other tuners to get their act together.

 

Hey Ken,

Wanna compare your GIAC Stage 3 vs. my Protomotive?

 

Nice going Wilber. That's especially impressive given that the streets would not really allow your (former) car to begin to stretch its legs.

How about while these guys do their car shootout, we host a same day driver's shootout in identically prepared cars? The two of us, and whoever wants to join us, can rent some of Danny McKeever's Toyotas (I know, FWD sucks...) and go at it.

 

Well, let's do it when these guys hold their shootout. That'll make it interesting and maybe we can get some others to join in and see how their driving skills stack up when the car is not at issue.

I am not sure how much it costs. I'd guess it might be 500-1000 per day. A little steep for a Toyota, but it is race prepared and I don't know of any other way to get relatively equally prepared cars for a driver challenge.

Maybe we set the entry fee a little higher than the cost of the rental, and donate the excess to some charity. Just thinking out loud, trying to make it more fun, and attract more drivers.

Cheers,

 

Gang,
I am not so sure that the masses should make a decisions as to why GIAC did not choose to tune Chad's ECU. For the last two weeks Garrett has been writing code for the long awaited switchers and finishing other projects such as the supercharged 996. He will probably spend the next two weeks finishing the software so we can release it publicly at any time. Any of you that met Garrett at the show would know that he is one hell of a guy. Regardless of what is known about Garrett there is much not known. Such as how many people REALLY got their starts with the help of Garrett. So before anyone goes and points a fingers as to why he may not have wanted to tune the ECU search the truth. Chad, unless Andrew or Garrett said to personally why, then I am shocked by your retorts. Bit out of character for you. Drop GIAC an email and ask them. There is more to GIAC then worrying about a shootout.

 

Stephen,

Let's get the facts straight:

1) I did e-mail Garrett....No Response

2) I talked to two of his authroized representatives. I was given the same information as stated above. One through e-mail and one over the phone.

3) The reason was stated....wait until after the shootout. It doesn't take much to realize Garrett and GIAC have something to fear.

4) I did not request Garrett tune my chip. I requested the code relating to the 1.3 bar throttle body shutdown be removed or adjusted upward.

5) Their website advertisement offers services like, code removals and alterations. Is this false advertising? Is Garrett/GIAC descriminating against me?

In light of the above, what do you find so out of character? Frankly Stephen, I would be a little concerned if I had anything in my car that had the GIAC name on it. What if he decides he doesn't want to fix it or sell it any longer. You then have a useless pile of junk. He doesn't respond to direct e-mail. You can't get him on the phone.

I am sorry, the two representatives stated his reason load and clear. You stated it better when you said there is a lot more involved. Once the 1.3 limitation is removed on my car, everyone would see exactly how much more is involved. It is my belief, that is what Garrett/GIAC is afraid of.

Stephen, I am sorry, but I do not buy your excuse for him about how busy he is with the other products you stated. Think about it for a minute. I was not requesting for him to do research on my problem. I specifically asked if he knew the location of the in question code and how to either remove or modify the 1.3 bar value upward. If he does have this, I should be able to send him one of my ECU's, the be work performed and the ECU returned. There isn't that much involved if you know where to go and what to do on the ECU. Heck, one of the posts above, you had them reprogram the whole chip on your trip to Southern Calif.

People should be concerned if they are thinking of buying the GIAC product due to the way they descriminate and do business. They also have to ask the question, am I buying the runner up product?

 

The "runner up" product? Who offers an alternative? Certainly not you Chad. We can't all afford to spend $300,000.00 on upgrades? I have not seen protomotive on this board advertising any upgrades? Who is left?

 

buddy,

There are many others out there.

I again object to your attempted painting of 300K in upgrades. That is BS and you know it. Are you including the original msrp of the car? Did you include all the parts bought, tested and removed in that figure?

It is simple to obtain approx. 600 flywheel hp (500 rwhp). ECU, exhaust and turbo's. Add NOS 5130 kit and inline fuel pump, add 75 hp and you are pushing 700. Of course adding all that power without doing other mods is a ticket for trouble and a very unbalanced and dangerous car. Please don't talk about reliability and everyday driving of the Stage V in comparison. I believe the Stage V could be a good product but face the facts, it is not proven. How many of them are currently on the road anywhere? I am not saying mine or others are proven. You just make it sound that way when in fact you add that much hp nothing is guaranteed.

Please don't cry poor boy and lull others into that 30K figure. By the time you add suspension, clutch and rods you are looking at another 40K.

I have spent two years getting my car where it is today. It sounds like you believe you found a magic bullet that is going to get you there over night. It is probably a very good start for 30K, just don't forget the rest of your car. I wish you the best of luck with your modifications.

 

Chad,

Many others out there? Who are they and what do they offer? RUF is an option but only 550 hp. I would not add NOS to my Porsche just my opinion. So who else is offering 700 HP?

Actually the first Stage 5 car has been running since last winter with no issues. And yes I know I am not poor just not in the same league as others on this board.

What have you spent on engine mods? I will not mention that other figure anymore but what is the figure? Actually it really doesn't matter because you are not offering anyone else an upgrade to 700 hp for a certain price.

I do not want to get in a pissing match with you Chad, I respect all you have done to your car. You have an aweswom tt and it works for you. I am just looking for options for the masses.

Thanks!

 

Chad,
What would it matter whether GIAC tuned a chip in a car that was beat or did beat anything on the shoot out. GIAC doesn't develop the packages. Out of respect for their dealers they help with new programs and goals. Example would be the Stage V etc. Not many others have as many packages available.This is headed by each dealer with the help of GIAC. That doesn't mean that every time one of us wants to run to LA that we will have a new package. The bottom line is they focus on their business and help us develop ours.

In regards to your situation, it isn't as easy as simply removing the code on top of a already programmed ECU. The process by which GIAC codes the ECUs is in the same fashion that Bosch writes the code. Therefore in order to take your Protomotive ECU and simply remove this or that is not available without the original code rewritten to work with the encryption. All of the files are written not hacked code. You can't simply overlay the information on top of the new code without great effects on the rest of the program. If you have ever written code even for a DOS based machine in Cobalt or assembly language then you understand what I mean. So in a sense you may think that it is as simple as checking a box here and removing the cut off when it is not. If you had a stock ECU then the process would be much easier to over lay or even with a previous GIAC program. In these instances like the show the code could be written on the spot. Also FWIW anyone that have Upsolute chips when they came to the show provided their original program on disc, so he didn't have to rewrite any of that. Not sure any of this makes sense, but it isn't as easy as you think. Code looks similar to this. This is from one of the aftermarket EFI I tune. This was a change to the VE at idle for the AC circuit. As you can see no buttons to simply push. S113B600AE00812211DD0066FB02E8FD0280FE022D
S113B61021FF026EFF400BFFE9D8C8C2AA9C8C7BB5
S113B6206B54310000000026010100400BFF1A0694
S113B63002AA03FF06AA09550BFF0EAA115412AA67
S113B640315C7A93ABD0DCFE2222668080808080DD
S113B6502222667777777777222A627773737373F8
S113B6602233626E6E6E6E6E22335E6E6A6A6A6A30
S113B6702233556666666666223355666666666676
S113B6802233556666666666667F7F7F7F7F7F7F2F
S113B690667373738B8B8B8B737373738B93938BB3
S113B6A07F7F7F98989898937F7F7FA5ACACA5986F
S113B6B07F7F7FA5B2BEBEBE7F7F7FA5B9B9B9B972
S113B6C07F7F7FACB2B9B9B9110011000D06122603
S113B6D01A010D040D2E68D1554E4503026408016C
S113B6E03024FF07940000004D8376111F3D003580
S113B6F0268200038401000020FFE2CDBCADA094AB
S113B700887C70635543281FFF222222221A110DC0
S113B7100804000000153EA21A60000000000000AA
S113B7200000000000000000000000000000000015
S113B7300000000000000000525200000000000061
S113B7405252000000000000000000000000000051
S113B750000000000000000000000000080B3200A0
S113B760222222221A150D040000000025FF8181E7
S113B7708D7F7F7F7F7E81818D7F7F7F7F7E817FB5
S113B7807F9D9D9D9D9D7F7F8BA1A1A1A1A17F7F79
S113B79090A6A6A6A6A67F7F9DABABABABAB7F7FE7
S113B7A09DABABABABAB7F7F9DABABABADAD3D026C
S113B7B00101101C5A0C68B5EDF5F9DD94837F770F
S113B7C06A5F297F0520209554E70111025A0384FA
S113B7D004AE05D80703082D09570A820BAC0CD612
S113B7E00E000F2B1055117F12AA0000000000005C
S113B7F00000000000000000000004000000000041

 

Who offers an alternative? All you have to do is look around.

For example, you could be like several people on this board and call or email wilber... not that difficult. He can design you a 700hp package without a problem.

If you are hardcore, what about Manthey Racing? Their 996GT-MR race car, based on a 996 Turbo, set the fastest qualifying time ever on the Nurburgring.

I also would not underestimate the Ruf cars. They have a 590hp Nardo engine package with titanium conrods which is probably about as fast as your Stage V (with higher top speed on the Ruf) and actually "proven." Don't be fooled by their "low" hp figures...

Sometimes it's easy to just focus on peak hp numbers. But it's about the fastest car, not the most powerful. 700hp doesn't mean **** if the power curve is too peaky.

All you have to do is give any of these companies a call.

Well, now that EVO has made a bolt-on version of my package for the masses, I guess it's time to plan another upgrade.

I think it's time for HKS F-Con next year.

 

I think you are missing my point. The RUF car is an option because I do believe they underestimate their hp. But not sure if they have anything running 700hp. As far as Manthey Racing I had never heard of them until the other day and they are in Germany. Not real easy to work a deal with them, unless they have a US office somewhere?

I am talking about an easy, reliable upgrade with people you can trust and talk to. I am very comfortable with the folks I am working with right now.

As far Wilber I have no idea what he offers at what price. He does not have a website and he has not offered anything on the list here as to what his upgrade is and at what cost.

Just my opinion of course.