996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Upgrading the Turbos on 2001 996 TT

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  #16  
Old 02-01-2009, 06:37 PM
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See green text below for my answers.

Originally Posted by Excidium28
Trying to figure out what would be necessary to replace in order to do a GT28 or GT35 turbo upgrade. Had a few questions I tried searching but didnt find much. Then you didn't do a good job searching. The info is in this forum but it will require a lot of reading as well as sorting the truth from the BS. BTW, I have a pair of clean used GT28s and GT30s for sale, but lets get off the advertising and on to your Qs:

Wondering how much HP are stock components good for and when its time to upgrade them.

* Fuel Pump max HP? 700 crank
Whats the common fuel pump upgrade walbro with inline boosters or twin walbros? Nobody here uses Walbros. Unfortunatley, there is no plug-n-play pump. Some just add an inline Bosch 044 (located under the car) and may also replace the stock pump with another 044 (again, not drop-in...a new cradle must be fabricated). Others have gone with a full custom setup (Aeromotive pump, etc).

* Fuel Injectors (How big are stock injectors CCs?) Stock are 48lbs IIRC. 60lb is a common upgrade good to safely support 700 crank.

* Fuel lines and fuel rail? Stock are good to 700 crank.

* Fuel Pressure Regulator Many use a 5bar with stock injectors to get to 600-650 crank. Larger injectors are run with the stock FPR (3.8bar) because many people believe that they are not reliable at 5bar. I have not seen any real evidence of this, just stories. That's enough to scare me when engine replacement is $25K+.

* Clutch limit? 550 crank hp.

* Can the stock exhaust manifold be modified in order to fit a GT28/30 turbos? Yes, but it is a real ***** and there have been failures reported.

* What are stock internals good for (Pistons, Rod, Crank) Widely recognized to be good for 700 crank with 93 octane and tuning but this longtime barrier appears to be changing.

* Whats the max power guys are running with GT28/30 turbos on PUMP GAS? Pump gas GT28s 550 wheel HP, GT30s 667 wheel HP.

* Piggy back friendly?/Good tuners that can flash the ECU for custom set up/ Stand alone (AEM, Tec3R...) As of date, nobody has released a standalone kit for sale to the public but it has been done by a few and others are working on it. Switzer has a well documented build (search Sledgehammer in the 997TT subforum).
 

Last edited by roadsterdoc; 02-01-2009 at 06:42 PM.
  #17  
Old 02-02-2009, 06:34 AM
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Agreed.... Those upper oil lines can be a PITA.

I will take a couple snaps of my car today, as the left side(hardest side) is almost completed. The turbo is mounted, collector is finished, and the runners should be finished today. Oil lines will be done when we slap in the 850cc injectors. This is probably the best time to remove the intake pipe as well. We also decided to put the turbo in the stock(ish) location, that along with an included adapter flage bolts up to the stock type exhaust. The "easiest" thing to do is place the turbos and build an exhaust around it. Also, you should't have to cut or modify any of the inner fenders or liners. If it fits on my car with the 20X12, it should fit on any car

Justin
 
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Excidium28
Trying to figure out what would be necessary to replace in order to do a GT28 or GT35 turbo upgrade. Had a few questions I tried searching but didnt find much.

I guess the first think to ask is what are your HP goals?

Wondering how much HP are stock components good for and when its time to upgrade them.
We have run 700 Wheel HP with c16 on the stock internals. But that is pushing it.

* Fuel Pump max HP?
Whats the common fuel pump upgrade walbro with inline boosters or twin walbros?

A set of twins running in series will be good. We have done little modification to the fuel system get 620 wheel HP.

* Fuel Injectors (How big are stock injectors CCs?)

The stock injectors are 48lbs

* Fuel lines and fuel rail?

Depends on HP Goals


* Fuel Pressure Regulator

I like to use 3.8 Bar but an adjustable one helps sometimes, but it aslo comes back to HP goals

* Clutch limit?

About 485-500 Wheel HP max.

* Can the stock exhaust manifold be modified in order to fit a GT28/30 turbos?

yes but its not quite the best solution

* What are stock internals good for (Pistons, Rod, Crank)

We have run 700 Wheel HP with c16 on the stock internals. But that is pushing it.

* Whats the max power guys are running with GT28/30 turbos on PUMP GAS?

We run a car with K16/GT28 up to 590 wheel HP on pump, doesnt sound like much but when we run c16, we are running high 10s in the 1/4 mile

* Piggy back friendly?/Good tuners that can flash the ECU for custom set up/ Stand alone (AEM, Tec3R...)
You can make your car start drive and cruse like a new 997tt with huge power with the stock ECU, but a piggy back or stand alone opens up some fun doors.(gear dependent boost, anti-lag, traction control, launch control, ect)


 
  #19  
Old 02-02-2009, 04:25 PM
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justin , when you say standalone does the car need the stock ecu inorder for it to work properly ? if so then i believe it is not a true stand alone ! when you do them in supras there not dependant on the stock ecu correct ?
 
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by roadsterdoc
See green text below for my answers.
The answers I was looking for thank you



Originally Posted by BBI Betim
You can make your car start drive and cruse like a new 997tt with huge power with the stock ECU, but a piggy back or stand alone opens up some fun doors.(gear dependent boost, anti-lag, traction control, launch control, ect)

Im just trying to find out the limits of the stock components and the HP goal is of course what ever the GT28 will pump out ..



Originally Posted by unvmym3
justin , when you say standalone does the car need the stock ecu inorder for it to work properly ? if so then i believe it is not a true stand alone ! when you do them in supras there not dependant on the stock ecu correct ?
If a "stand alone" requires the stock ECU to stay in place than I would still consider it a piggy back. If your running a full stand alone engine managment your stock ECU is in the tool box.

And there is a 150 different types of stand alones out there that will work on any car you just have to go through and wire it correctly unless some one has gone through the wiring diagram and created a plug and play.

 
  #21  
Old 02-02-2009, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BBI Betim
You can make your car start drive and cruse like a new 997tt with huge power with the stock ECU, but a piggy back or stand alone opens up some fun doors.(gear dependent boost, anti-lag, traction control, launch control, ect)


There is also some boost controllers out there that allow you to adjust boost per RPM or gear like the Apex AVC-R
 
  #22  
Old 02-02-2009, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Excidium28
The answers I was looking for thank you





Im just trying to find out the limits of the stock components and the HP goal is of course what ever the GT28 will pump out ..




If a "stand alone" requires the stock ECU to stay in place than I would still consider it a piggy back. If your running a full stand alone engine managment your stock ECU is in the tool box.

And there is a 150 different types of stand alones out there that will work on any car you just have to go through and wire it correctly unless some one has gone through the wiring diagram and created a plug and play.
indeed, i would call it a piggy back also.
 
  #23  
Old 02-03-2009, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle996
Excidium.... hah! Nice set of questions... who are you researching for???????

I hope you dont drag *** on this cause I wanna race. (ill even let you pick your maker out of the garage) John Deer not included.


And look into water/methanol injection if your set on GT28's. You can get numbers close to race gas and only comes on when you need it.
 

Last edited by Excidium28; 02-03-2009 at 12:09 AM.
  #24  
Old 02-03-2009, 04:12 PM
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What material is the stock exhaust manifold made out of?

Is there a room for an adapter flange to convert it to a T3?
 
  #25  
Old 02-03-2009, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by unvmym3
justin , when you say standalone does the car need the stock ecu inorder for it to work properly ? if so then i believe it is not a true stand alone ! when you do them in supras there not dependant on the stock ecu correct ?
That entirely depends if you ever want to pass emissions or be able to find an error with a sensor. If I do it as a "true standalone" as you guys mention, you will get no CEL if something goes awry. Additionally, if you go to get a state inspection/registration(in all states in a couple of years), if they are unable to connect to the OBD portion of the factory ECU, you fail. That would suck

Can I run sans stock ecu? Sure, why not. But why? I can EASILY run the DBW, and the dash functions could be output on a datastream of certain aftermarket ecu's. Again, I ask, why?

What I have done is integrated a standalone, in true standalone function, into the stock wiring and dash. There is nothing piggy back about it, and actually, the stock ecu is piggybacking off of the "standalone". I'll explain.

The stock ecu algorithm for the DBW is an intense algorithm based on MANY other factors, and when at all possible, I would suggest the stock ecu be the controlling factor in this. To each their own. I also still prefer to have a failsafe for the "oops" factor in a high hp car... DBW traction control is still functioning. The aftermarket ecu is controlling every function of the car as far as ignition timing and fuel delivery is concerned. It is not modifying a stock signal input or output by the stock pcm whatsoever. It is "standing alone" in every aspect of how the engine is run, with the additional benefits dictated from a stock pcm(gas mileage still functions), traction control, secondary air, DBW, dash, a/c, etc. The MAF can be deleted(I am ouputting a MAF signal and Pressure signal to the pcm), as can the convoluted intake piping to the turbos. I would like to go into all of the specifics, but that will have to wait for a later date

If you are asking if I will actually delete the factory pcm, the answer is no as I personally still intend to pass emissions. If you are asking if I can, the answer is yes.

From now on, I might start using the phrase "Independant, Fully Controllable MAF deletable Tuning Option using the stock pcm to pass emissions and control DBW". or "IFCMDTOUTSPTPEACD"(tm)

I might still end up doing a reflash to change the DBW algorithm, and a few other things... as far as tuning options go, the "IFCMDTOUTSPTPEACD"(tm) is just another option. I still summise that for the MAJORITY of Porsche owners, the factory PCM reflash is the way to go.

Justin
 
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