Big wing conversion question (GT2 decklid upgraders, this is for you guys!)
#16
02-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132 
Yup this can be done. I am not 100% sure on the years that it applies to, but the car is basically told that it is equipped with a factory aerokit, ie...no hydraulic wing. This may or may not be aplicable to early 996TTs, because I don't think the aerokit was an option, however it still may have been programmed to not have it, even if it was not an option. No hacking of wiring, or ordering harnesses, and is pretty simple to reverse if one decides to go back to hydraulics. 
Jeff
#17
02-07-2009, 06:19 PM
Greetings form Puerto Rico guys!!!
I'm new to the forum and definitely need to tackle this issue. I know for sure that there should be a cheap solution to this since there are only two micro-switches attached to one of the sides of the hydraulic ramps (plus the 12v Power and Ground cables that goes to the pump). That's everything related to the spoiler system in the wing section of the harness. To my best understanding one of those micro switches should be for the extended position and one for the retracted. The only thing that needs to be done is to make the proper combination of closed/open contacts on the switches that can make the car think that the spoiler is fully extended at all times. I will be trying my hypothesis and will let you know.
Andres
I'm new to the forum and definitely need to tackle this issue. I know for sure that there should be a cheap solution to this since there are only two micro-switches attached to one of the sides of the hydraulic ramps (plus the 12v Power and Ground cables that goes to the pump). That's everything related to the spoiler system in the wing section of the harness. To my best understanding one of those micro switches should be for the extended position and one for the retracted. The only thing that needs to be done is to make the proper combination of closed/open contacts on the switches that can make the car think that the spoiler is fully extended at all times. I will be trying my hypothesis and will let you know.
Andres
#18
02-07-2009, 07:52 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Age: 57
Posts: 1,935
Rep Power: 105
Jeff- Looking forward to seeing your progress. I have thought about doing a GT2 sized wing attached to a modified stock 996TT lid by two flat machined aluminum uprights. I don't think it would be so difficult for someone with good autobody skills (of which I have none). My biggest concern is the spoiler. Not just the shape/size but achieving the proper angle to produce an appropriate amount of downforce while avoiding too much drag.
Welcome Iceyankee. I can't wait to see some great DIY tricks now that there is a Puerto Rico member on the forum. PR guys have really impressed me with their resourcefulness. Having owned and DIY modified Datsuns, Nissans and Mazdas over the years, I have seen some amazing PR tricks. For example, a 13B rotary single turbo that had mechanical fuel injection (belt driven) with multiple fuel injection sites (made from hardware store nozzles) that ran the 1/4 mile in the 8s!
Welcome Iceyankee. I can't wait to see some great DIY tricks now that there is a Puerto Rico member on the forum. PR guys have really impressed me with their resourcefulness. Having owned and DIY modified Datsuns, Nissans and Mazdas over the years, I have seen some amazing PR tricks. For example, a 13B rotary single turbo that had mechanical fuel injection (belt driven) with multiple fuel injection sites (made from hardware store nozzles) that ran the 1/4 mile in the 8s!
#19
02-07-2009, 09:32 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132 Jeff- Looking forward to seeing your progress. I have thought about doing a GT2 sized wing attached to a modified stock 996TT lid by two flat machined aluminum uprights. I don't think it would be so difficult for someone with good autobody skills (of which I have none). My biggest concern is the spoiler. Not just the shape/size but achieving the proper angle to produce an appropriate amount of downforce while avoiding too much drag.
SamboTT's wing is adjustable. He said the key is not too much (or it slows the car....like F1)...middle position worked best for him in most conditions. I'll likely get some canards in cf to help as a lip spoiler is more complex.
I am not sure what dring a 996TT around with canards on it all the time will do...make the car look good or bad. But, the wing is huge and will be there all the time. The wing involved is 996 rs...closest thing now is the new 997 GT3 RSR wing. IT is far bigger than the RS units, and it is higher.
Please post any new harness solutions here....I am very grateful. Pictured is the wing (silver car is Sambott's) and one of my favorite wings I've ever seen.
Jeff
#20
02-08-2009, 06:13 AM
Registered User
I'm actually looking into making different uprights for my wing on the Zcar. I'll keep you guys posted on "how" I do it. I need to raise the wing about 6-8 inches more in height.
Mike
Mike
#21
02-08-2009, 06:42 AM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132
I don't have the wing yet, but Sam told me the uprights are aluminum and a lot of epoxy/fiberglass work was done to make the interface for bolting things together strong. Clearly there are adjustable aluminum pieces between the uprights and the wing, and I think this is a huge design advantage in that you can always make a new set of adapters to tweak things rather than have to have the wing or the upright have a lot of small holes and such, that over time could cause trouble/strip, etc. He clearly had this thing done well. So, I jumped at it as I did not want to do it here on my time..
Mike, if I were to do it now, I'd find a source of wings and make my uprights go to those. I got a lot of Google hits on places in England and wings...seems like sons and daughters of the F1 industry there have a lot of wing making in their veins..... sort of like our dirt track types here.
Here is what I think will go up front. If I do anything at all....not sure it will need anything factor aero lip is actually lower than the gt2 lip....
http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Products..._CMBC4001.aspx
Anyone work with these guys?
Anything that I'll damage if I use there "rough screws" on the bumper?
TIA
Jeff
Mike, if I were to do it now, I'd find a source of wings and make my uprights go to those. I got a lot of Google hits on places in England and wings...seems like sons and daughters of the F1 industry there have a lot of wing making in their veins..... sort of like our dirt track types here.
Here is what I think will go up front. If I do anything at all....not sure it will need anything factor aero lip is actually lower than the gt2 lip....
http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Products..._CMBC4001.aspx
Anyone work with these guys?
Anything that I'll damage if I use there "rough screws" on the bumper?
TIA
Jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 02-08-2009 at 06:53 AM.
#22
02-08-2009, 06:59 AM
JCB, when you receive it, if you ever remove the sides, can you please take some pics of how it was made (decklid), i want to do something similar and seeing pics of someone who did it would be nice.
thanks.
thanks.
#24
02-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132 Jeff
#26
02-08-2009, 06:33 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132
Thanks. Now I am thoroughly confused ....wire/pwis/hack.....probably will get both the harness and the pwis adjustment.
Jeff
Jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 02-08-2009 at 06:55 PM.
#27
02-08-2009, 07:40 PM
Hello everyone:
First of all, I would like to thank all of you for the great welcome that I have received from you.
Roadsterdoc: Thank you for some great compliments and it is a great pleasure to provide as much help as I can give. I know that all of you also have a great amount of knowkledge in these cars that hopefully with time I will be obtaining.
Now!!! The definite solution to the check spoiler warning in the dash for the minimum amount of 0 dollars with cero cents!!!! This is from my 2001 911 turbo and I understand it applies to all other 996 turbos since the system is the same.
Just as I previously said, it all went down to looking for the appropriate switch combination that will fool the ECU to think that the spoiler is upward all the time. All this was performed in the spoiler-engine cover stock harness. I have attached two pictures. One illustrates the right spoiler ram assembly(looked from the rear). This is the ram that has attached two micro-switches. One of them has a blue cable and a black cable and the other switch has a gray cable and a black cable also. These switches do not perform alike. What I mean is that when one of the switches is depressed, it provides continuity between both of its cables. While the other switch opens its circuit.
As seen in the second picture, I removed the assembly to show how it works. The little metal clip makes contact with the inner sleeve of the ramp as there are two cut-outs in the ramp that allows contact between the clips and the ramp sleeve.( There are two metal clips but i lost one of them today). When the spoiler is downward, these two clips(hence the switches) are pressed. This switch combination tells the ECU that the spoiler is downward. When the spoiler is fully extended, both clips are released and the switches as well. Hence, telling the ECU that the spoiler is extended. If the switchin the upper section of the ramp is not released, guess what message you get:"spoiler warning ".
So, in order to get rid of this spoiler warning for ever is:
Simply simulate the position of the spoiler extended with the switches by disconnecting them from the spoiler ramp bracket and securing them in the released position. Or the same thing without the switches:
1- Make the gray cable and the black cable have continuity at all times. This can be done by cutting the cables from the switch and connecting them together.
2- Cut the cables from the micro-switch that have the blue cable and black cable and isolate them with electrical tape in order to prevent continuity from them.
Finally, remember to disconnect the plug of the spoiler switch control in the dash, since as you may imagine if for some reason you press the "spoiler downward" option the warning will appear. This will happen since after a few seconds of the ECU not receiving the micro-switch combination of the "spoiler down" status it may think that something has gone wrong.
I have done this today with absolute success. My testing included several 70 MPH pulls with no spoiler warnings. Hence, it is proven. Any doubts, just let me know.
Best regards, Andres
First of all, I would like to thank all of you for the great welcome that I have received from you.
Roadsterdoc: Thank you for some great compliments and it is a great pleasure to provide as much help as I can give. I know that all of you also have a great amount of knowkledge in these cars that hopefully with time I will be obtaining.
Now!!! The definite solution to the check spoiler warning in the dash for the minimum amount of 0 dollars with cero cents!!!! This is from my 2001 911 turbo and I understand it applies to all other 996 turbos since the system is the same.
Just as I previously said, it all went down to looking for the appropriate switch combination that will fool the ECU to think that the spoiler is upward all the time. All this was performed in the spoiler-engine cover stock harness. I have attached two pictures. One illustrates the right spoiler ram assembly(looked from the rear). This is the ram that has attached two micro-switches. One of them has a blue cable and a black cable and the other switch has a gray cable and a black cable also. These switches do not perform alike. What I mean is that when one of the switches is depressed, it provides continuity between both of its cables. While the other switch opens its circuit.
As seen in the second picture, I removed the assembly to show how it works. The little metal clip makes contact with the inner sleeve of the ramp as there are two cut-outs in the ramp that allows contact between the clips and the ramp sleeve.( There are two metal clips but i lost one of them today). When the spoiler is downward, these two clips(hence the switches) are pressed. This switch combination tells the ECU that the spoiler is downward. When the spoiler is fully extended, both clips are released and the switches as well. Hence, telling the ECU that the spoiler is extended. If the switchin the upper section of the ramp is not released, guess what message you get:"spoiler warning ".
So, in order to get rid of this spoiler warning for ever is:
Simply simulate the position of the spoiler extended with the switches by disconnecting them from the spoiler ramp bracket and securing them in the released position. Or the same thing without the switches:
1- Make the gray cable and the black cable have continuity at all times. This can be done by cutting the cables from the switch and connecting them together.
2- Cut the cables from the micro-switch that have the blue cable and black cable and isolate them with electrical tape in order to prevent continuity from them.
Finally, remember to disconnect the plug of the spoiler switch control in the dash, since as you may imagine if for some reason you press the "spoiler downward" option the warning will appear. This will happen since after a few seconds of the ECU not receiving the micro-switch combination of the "spoiler down" status it may think that something has gone wrong.
I have done this today with absolute success. My testing included several 70 MPH pulls with no spoiler warnings. Hence, it is proven. Any doubts, just let me know.
Best regards, Andres
Last edited by Iceyankee-Tsi; 02-08-2009 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Adding info.
#29
02-09-2009, 04:01 AM
Registered User
Jeff, Couple comments about those Canards...
Find a raceshop (Maybe your local indy) who has used aero aids up front. You have a lot of "stuff" up there and you don't want to throw a screw thru the A/C condensor or the side of a radiator tank...
I used these aluminum Canards last September with great results... Car was very much planted...
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r226/Mikelly_2006/Mike%20911%20Twin%20Turbo/PICT0009-2.jpg
Mike
Find a raceshop (Maybe your local indy) who has used aero aids up front. You have a lot of "stuff" up there and you don't want to throw a screw thru the A/C condensor or the side of a radiator tank...
I used these aluminum Canards last September with great results... Car was very much planted...
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r226/Mikelly_2006/Mike%20911%20Twin%20Turbo/PICT0009-2.jpg
Mike
#30
02-09-2009, 04:51 AM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CIR PCA Region
Posts: 2,142
Rep Power: 132
Mike,
Thanks. Do you have any other shots of the canards. It looks pretty straight forward to put them on. What I like about the idea of canards is their ability to come on and off for DE days, and their ability to not change the angle of approach of the car for, say, driveways and gas stations....I hate crunching on slops and have things just right so it is low but I can still use it everyday.
996TT = ultimate daily driven track monster
Jeff
Thanks. Do you have any other shots of the canards. It looks pretty straight forward to put them on. What I like about the idea of canards is their ability to come on and off for DE days, and their ability to not change the angle of approach of the car for, say, driveways and gas stations....I hate crunching on slops and have things just right so it is low but I can still use it everyday.
996TT = ultimate daily driven track monster
Jeff