Carbon Fiber
#31
09-29-2004 | 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by Soon2be993tt
anyone who buys CF pieces for looks is
anyone who buys CF pieces for looks is
well i guess i have to call my wife now to geta divorce since im gay.. according to soontobe993TT's statement...
its a matter of preference.... dont bash people for what they like, i dont go saying your suburnan is gay... even though i am not a fan of the old school hotrods...
just my .02 cents
#33
09-29-2004 | 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by Curves4S
Joe you hit it on the dot... i can't stand how all these people pay a hefty amount for products that we or I (as a former Ricer) knows cost way less to produce. Then they try to back it up with blah blah blah, you get what you pay for ...blah blah blah... $4k plus for a Techart front bumper that doesn't bolt on easily and can stick out 1/2" on the right side...haha give me a break...or how about a $2500 Gemballa 993 stylehood whose fitment sucks ***... I understand the economics behind supply and demand but a majority of the aftermarket prices on Porsches are laughable as i've been doing so for while...
Soon2be993tt: VIS is one company that makes good CF parts for Imports and their prices are reasonable.
Lifedies: I think you'd get a good buzz goin for quality interior pieces that are considerable less than dealers.. You might try and set yourself apart by goin as far as making full CF door panels and dash. Personally i'd be very interested in OEM looking CF Decklids/ wings/ rear bumper/ front fender/etc... I actually have an idea for my car... Awhile back, there was a lot of interest in a quality CF hood. I'm still looking for one that fits well. This one guy Patrick Nguyen makes some nice quality custom pieces (he has the 996 converted to GT1, featured in "Mobile Entertainment October 2003). Other competition is Getty Design.....
Either way.... if you make quality CF products for a fair price, i'd be your #1 customer
Good Luck
Joe you hit it on the dot... i can't stand how all these people pay a hefty amount for products that we or I (as a former Ricer) knows cost way less to produce. Then they try to back it up with blah blah blah, you get what you pay for ...blah blah blah... $4k plus for a Techart front bumper that doesn't bolt on easily and can stick out 1/2" on the right side...haha give me a break...or how about a $2500 Gemballa 993 stylehood whose fitment sucks ***... I understand the economics behind supply and demand but a majority of the aftermarket prices on Porsches are laughable as i've been doing so for while...
Soon2be993tt: VIS is one company that makes good CF parts for Imports and their prices are reasonable.
Lifedies: I think you'd get a good buzz goin for quality interior pieces that are considerable less than dealers.. You might try and set yourself apart by goin as far as making full CF door panels and dash. Personally i'd be very interested in OEM looking CF Decklids/ wings/ rear bumper/ front fender/etc... I actually have an idea for my car... Awhile back, there was a lot of interest in a quality CF hood. I'm still looking for one that fits well. This one guy Patrick Nguyen makes some nice quality custom pieces (he has the 996 converted to GT1, featured in "Mobile Entertainment October 2003). Other competition is Getty Design.....
Either way.... if you make quality CF products for a fair price, i'd be your #1 customer
Good Luck
, and yes i am still in the market for a good quality cf hood for a reasonable price... if u find one gimme a holler k.. and yes p-car owners are at times charged hefty amount of $$$ for parts.. i.e. 400.00 for pedals.... really does it cost that much to machine pedals..?
#34
09-29-2004 | 08:01 AM
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Injection Molded?
Life Dies (sort of a macabre moniker by the way?)
You mention in your first post that the process you used was "injection molded"? Can you give a little better picture? I thought the classic CF technique was hand laid up on a mold with the impregnated laminates cooked in an autoclave?
Some of the cost components are:
R&D
Molds for forming parts
Manual skilled labor to lay-up and trim and prepare
Autoclave (big $'s)
Time to bake
Rejection rate; (relatively high with several possible things to go wrong)
Proper facility in an area that doesn't mind you cooking off a few hydrocarbons.
Part of the reason that Porsche carries an expense adder is because of the potential market size. Take R&D and Tools (molds). R&D and the mold cost must be spread across the production run with a bit for profit (as much as the market will bear
) and a bit for accumulating $'s for replacement parts and R&D as the originals wear.
There are a lot more Hondas about then Porsches, also don't forget the "as much as the market will bear" statement!
In any case I am curious how you injection mold CF?
You mention in your first post that the process you used was "injection molded"? Can you give a little better picture? I thought the classic CF technique was hand laid up on a mold with the impregnated laminates cooked in an autoclave?
Some of the cost components are:
R&D
Molds for forming parts
Manual skilled labor to lay-up and trim and prepare
Autoclave (big $'s)
Time to bake
Rejection rate; (relatively high with several possible things to go wrong)
Proper facility in an area that doesn't mind you cooking off a few hydrocarbons.
Part of the reason that Porsche carries an expense adder is because of the potential market size. Take R&D and Tools (molds). R&D and the mold cost must be spread across the production run with a bit for profit (as much as the market will bear
) and a bit for accumulating $'s for replacement parts and R&D as the originals wear.There are a lot more Hondas about then Porsches, also don't forget the "as much as the market will bear" statement!
In any case I am curious how you injection mold CF?
#35
09-29-2004 | 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by 02barebones996
so that means im gay then , i like how cf looks, thats one of the reasons why i like it, i know there are significant weight savings for cf parts, but i mainly got the cf for the look, im not ashamed to admit it,..
well i guess i have to call my wife now to geta divorce since im gay.. according to soontobe993TT's statement...
its a matter of preference.... dont bash people for what they like, i dont go saying your suburnan is gay... even though i am not a fan of the old school hotrods...
just my .02 cents
so that means im gay then , i like how cf looks, thats one of the reasons why i like it, i know there are significant weight savings for cf parts, but i mainly got the cf for the look, im not ashamed to admit it,..
well i guess i have to call my wife now to geta divorce since im gay.. according to soontobe993TT's statement...
its a matter of preference.... dont bash people for what they like, i dont go saying your suburnan is gay... even though i am not a fan of the old school hotrods...
just my .02 cents
ease up, breathe, relax. What should it matter what my opinion is? If you don't like my suburban I could care less
BTW, I was just joking anyways, hence the
gay smilie 
( I mean, do you really think I was saying you bend over and lube it up w/ your boyfriend because you like the look of CF pieces?) . Although personally, if I was going to go w/ a CF hood, i'd definately paint it body color, however my opinion may change one day.just my .03 cents
Last edited by HotRodGuy; 09-29-2004 at 08:59 AM.
#36
09-29-2004 | 08:56 AM
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From: Walnut Creek, CA
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Re: Injection Molded?
Originally posted by Garey Cooper
Some of the cost components are:
R&D
Molds for forming parts
Manual skilled labor to lay-up and trim and prepare
Autoclave (big $'s)
Time to bake
Rejection rate; (relatively high with several possible things to go wrong)
Proper facility in an area that doesn't mind you cooking off a few hydrocarbons.
Part of the reason that Porsche carries an expense adder is because of the potential market size. Take R&D and Tools (molds). R&D and the mold cost must be spread across the production run with a bit for profit (as much as the market will bear ) and a bit for accumulating $'s for replacement parts and R&D as the originals wear.
There are a lot more Hondas about then Porsches, also don't forget the "as much as the market will bear" statement!
Some of the cost components are:
R&D
Molds for forming parts
Manual skilled labor to lay-up and trim and prepare
Autoclave (big $'s)
Time to bake
Rejection rate; (relatively high with several possible things to go wrong)
Proper facility in an area that doesn't mind you cooking off a few hydrocarbons.
Part of the reason that Porsche carries an expense adder is because of the potential market size. Take R&D and Tools (molds). R&D and the mold cost must be spread across the production run with a bit for profit (as much as the market will bear
) and a bit for accumulating $'s for replacement parts and R&D as the originals wear.There are a lot more Hondas about then Porsches, also don't forget the "as much as the market will bear" statement!
exactly, hence the price of good CF work.
It's funny someone mentioned VIS, we contacted them about a year ago to make a CF hood for the Acura CL. They wanted 10 people guranteed and the price would be about $450. Now, do you really think you'd be getting a quality piece?
#37
09-29-2004 | 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Curves4S
Life Dies: I think you really have to consider your targeted market... Hypothetically, with that much attention to detail....i dare to say your product may be overbuilt and under appreciated by the masses. And a product like that can only be appreciated by a select few which in turn would not generate the sales needed to maintain the business. However, if you made a part that is both quality (fitment, aesthetics to a degree) and functional (lighter), then you would have an item that would sell itself, assuming that it is priced competitively.
For the wider market, i don't think they are as meticulous as you or me. When I check out my friends Stradale, i see tons of flaws in the CF but most people, IMO, want something that looks decent enough to be on a street car and saves them some weight.
Life Dies: I think you really have to consider your targeted market... Hypothetically, with that much attention to detail....i dare to say your product may be overbuilt and under appreciated by the masses. And a product like that can only be appreciated by a select few which in turn would not generate the sales needed to maintain the business. However, if you made a part that is both quality (fitment, aesthetics to a degree) and functional (lighter), then you would have an item that would sell itself, assuming that it is priced competitively.
For the wider market, i don't think they are as meticulous as you or me. When I check out my friends Stradale, i see tons of flaws in the CF but most people, IMO, want something that looks decent enough to be on a street car and saves them some weight.
I am not willing to sacrific product quality for price. I make good **** or I dont make it at all.
Injection molding is simplely where the resin is injected into the laminate. What the advantage is I can vacuum the bubbles out of the resin before injecting which create a viod free part. Also injecting I can control the amount of resin that flows into the part allowing the resin content to be nearly perfect each time. Viod free parts are structurally sounder and easier to paint. With the process I use you do not have a layer of gelcoat. No craking, fading, etc. I use a marine uthathane clear coat that finishes off the products like gold.
#39
09-29-2004 | 12:53 PM
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If I can get 20 people commited I'd estimate 1400-2000 bucks fully finished (optional unfinished or carbon finish or painted finish on top with underside in carbon finish). I'll document the construction from the ground up. Preperation of the mold, construction of the mold, contruction of the part, etc. I would have to have custom CNC'd stainless threads made be durable and to retain the factory mountng position. Best fit and finish guarantee or I'll refund your cash and warrantee the part for a year. I have no idea where the pics of the hood I did but I'll snap some in a couple weeks when I go on a drive with one of my previous customers who has a hood I did. Also, I will give a free hood to the guy who sends me his mint condition hood for the mold. I will need to keep it cause I will ruin it.
#42
09-29-2004 | 01:04 PM
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Same thing goes for the 993. 20 people so I can cover my costs and yes make some money. I'll take the hood as long as there are no dents. Scratches I can work with.
Also, we can play around with some transparent paint. On black I could get it to look like the color of your car but when you look closer you will be able to see though the paint and into the carbon. Pretty cool. It doesnt turn out with the silvers, whites, or yellows. Reds, greens, blues look nice.
Also, we can play around with some transparent paint. On black I could get it to look like the color of your car but when you look closer you will be able to see though the paint and into the carbon. Pretty cool. It doesnt turn out with the silvers, whites, or yellows. Reds, greens, blues look nice.
#43
09-29-2004 | 01:07 PM
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BTW: I am just finished up with E36 sedan hood I made for my car. I'll post pics of it very soon. Its a full race hood without a brace and foam core structure. Very very light and very stiff.