I was at the Shanghai GP this weekend. Obviously the car manufacturer has to be high end with a racing history. Isn't Porsche an obvious choice?

 

Too expensive to run a team and commerically not worthwhile may be?

 

Cant be.. Compared to the production numbers of McLaren, Porsche spits out cars like toyota.

 

Of course we all know that Porsche is one of the most profitable carmakers ... but how much would it cost to run a team and how much does it return (both quantifible and non-tangible benefits)?

Even Honda is not in it now

 

Any "sports car" maker would be crazy to get involved right now. A factory Porsche team losing to Force India (with a McLaren engine) would be a marketing disaster. The "safest" way for Porsche to enter F1 would be as an engine supplier, but even that won't work. They would have to spend about $50 million to design an engine that only a backmarker team would risk running, thus relegating the Porsche name to the bottom, creating that same marketing blunder. If the economy turns, the closest Porsche would get to F1 in the next decade would be if VW started making engines, and then eventually bought the customer team. (Like BMW-Sauber)

 

at this point it's a money pit with no real returns. porsche is prudent to remain in endurance competitions for real feed back they can actually use in productions models.

 

Porsche's racing department is maxed out. All the cup cars they develop, distribute and support fill the capacity of the racing team. Porsche has the biggest factory produced race car market in the world. Nearly every racing Porsche you see comes built from the factory. There is a whole european cup series, and an american one, with amatuer racing cups all over the place. Where as racing teams make their own versions of other cars on a regular basis, same cannot be said for the Porsches. But now that they own VW, they may be able to jump into F1, but it would have to make sense.

From a marketing standpoint I can't see that there would be any advantage since Porsche has a gigantic foothold in racing as it is.

 

They participated in the 80's with McLaren; their engines were badged TAG though

http://www.motorsportcollector.com/TAGEngine.html

 

2003 figures, check this out, the costs are staggering!

Browse > Home / F1 / The Price of Formula 1
The Price of Formula 1

Written by Josh Katinger · February 28, 2004

I was having a conversation over drinks with some friends the other night and we got on the subject of F1 budgets. We were wondering how many NEXTEL Cup cars could be run on an F1 budget. Coincidentally I received the info below in an email a day or so later. Mind you, they are 2003 estimates, but I think they are fascinating none the less. If the estimates that Roush was asking anywhere from $12-$15 million to sponsor Jeff Burton’s #99 ride, then I guess you could run about 30 NEXTEL Cup cars for a year on Ferrari’s budget alone…

F1 Magazine 2003 budgets (Keep in mind these are 2003 figures) F1 Magazine ran an article in March 2003 in which they admitted that no accurate figures were available due to the secretive nature of the business. However, they said that they had “nagged and cajoled dozens of key team personnel to reveal the odd titbit, after which [they] cross-checked and analysed [their] findings, then pieced together what [they] believe is the most comprehensive, definitive and accurate guide to F1 costs ever published”. The results are further broken out into 10 spending categories:
Total $2,141,100,000

$443,800,000 Ferrari
$353,300,000 Williams
$304,600,000 McLaren
$290,400,000 Toyota
$225,100,000 BAR
$206,800,000 Renault
$119,500,000 Sauber
$ 79,200,000 Jordan
$ 78,800,000 Jaguar
$ 39,600,000 Minardi

Engine budgets $931,000,000
$185,000,000 Williams
$175,000,000 Ferrari
$150,000,000 Toyota
$140,000,000 McLaren
$110,000,000 Renault
$105,000,000 BAR
$ 24,000,000 Sauber
$ 18,000,000 Jordan
$ 15,000,000 Minardi
$ 9,000,000 Jaguar

Operating the cars at tests $260,800,000
$88,000,000 Ferrari
$48,000,000 Williams
$29,100,000 McLaren
$24,700,000 Toyota
$22,000,000 BAR
$19,800,000 Sauber
$14,600,000 Renault
$ 7,500,000 Jaguar
$ 3,700,000 Jordan
$ 3,400,000 Minardi

Team salaries $194,000,000
$41,400,000 Ferrari
$32,300,000 Toyota
$30,300,000 McLaren
$24,000,000 Williams
$16,500,000 Renault
$12,800,000 BAR
$12,700,000 Sauber
$10,600,000 Jaguar
$ 8,800,000 Jordan
$ 5,300,000 Minardi

Operating the cars at races $187,300,000
$28,500,000 Ferrari
$22,500,000 Toyota
$20,800,000 Williams
$19,200,000 McLaren
$19,000,000 Renault
$18,200,000 Sauber
$17,600,000 BAR
$17,000,000 Jaguar
$16,000,000 Jordan
$ 8,500,000 Minardi

Research and development $173,000,000
$35,000,000 McLaren
$21,500,000 Toyota
$20,300,000 Williams
$20,000,000 Ferrari
$16,900,000 Renault
$16,500,000 BAR
$15,400,000 Jaguar
$14,600,000 Sauber
$12,600,000 Jordan
$ 200,000 Minardi

Driver salaries $132,000,000
$44,000,000 Ferrari
$24,000,000 BAR
$20,000,000 Williams
$13,500,000 McLaren
$ 8,000,000 Jordan
$ 7,500,000 Toyota
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 6,200,000 Renault
$ 1,500,000 Jaguar
$ 500,000 Minardi

Wind tunnel operating costs $93,600,000
$15,100,000 Ferrari
$12,900,000 McLaren
$12,200,000 Williams
$11,600,000 Toyota
$10,400,000 Sauber
$10,100,000 BAR
$ 8,000,000 Renault
$ 5,500,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 3,300,000 Minardi

Travel and accommodation $86,600,000
$18,000,000 Ferrari
$13,000,000 McLaren
$12,000,000 Toyota
$ 9,300,000 Williams
$ 7,900,000 BAR
$ 7,500,000 Renault
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 5,300,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 2,300,000 Minardi

Corporate entertaining and catering $62,850,000
$12,200,000 Williams
$ 9,700,000 Ferrari
$ 8,900,000 McLaren
$ 7,200,000 BAR
$ 6,700,000 Renault
$ 6,300,000 Toyota
$ 5,600,000 Jaguar
$ 4,300,000 Sauber
$ 1,600,000 Jordan
$ 350,000 Minardi

Car manufacturing costs $19,250,000
$4,100,000 Ferrari
$2,700,000 McLaren
$2,000,000 Toyota
$2,000,000 BAR
$1,900,000 Sauber
$1,500,000 Jordan
$1,500,000 Williams
$1,400,000 Renault
$1,400,000 Jaguar
$ 750,000 Minardi

 

mind blowing figures...
WOW!!!
those numbers are insane!

I believe Porsche does not belong to the F1 ,since they have a good rep at all the cup events and endurance races and all the heart and spirit of Porsche car development and brand marketing is more linked to Norschleife races,DTM and endurance racing etc with harsh conditions which requires cars that can endure a lot of stress on their parts and still perform great.
F1 cars are pussies... one little bumper to bumper kiss and the cars are done..
but then,they perform so unbelievably great and have this nice sound that one can only love those F1 race cars

 

I certainly wouldn't say F1 cars are pussies. They are the most advanced cars on the planet by far and are constructed with the absolute best cost no object components and materials available. You wouldn't toss a fine watch on a counter top when you take it off, nor would you throw a expensive precision instrument in your toolbox after you finish using it. F1 cars are built to turn, accelerate and brake at high Gs, not to bang into each other.

 

Porsche has nothing to prove and already has the lion share of the market. Many of those F1 constructors need to get their names going.

But I do have a question... how come there is no F1 driver from the US of A.

 

BTW, did you see the Toyota team changing the front spoiler with the special trolly. They did it in seconds. Impressive.

 

compared to Porsche, Mercedes pumps out cars like toyota

 

Bummer, just missed it. The announcers were talking about it when I walked in. I've seen them replace the nose cone in seconds but I haven't seen them use a trolley.