One Lap of America (Porsche contender)
#46
05-11-2009, 03:52 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 
My thoughts exactly. Maybe I'm not good at getting my point across but I could swear that's almost exactly what I said.
What was that about their sentiments Sakred??
What was that about their sentiments Sakred??
#47
05-12-2009, 08:58 PM
Oh where to start...
First off I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for their contributions during the event. Both are very humble and talented drivers that keep us on our toes the entire week. It was a pleasure to race against you both and look forward to future encounters on track and off.
That being said I am here just to clear up some of the misinformation that is being volleyed around about the Cannonball GT-R and exactly where it stands in regards to Peter's GT2.
Here is a complete list of mods:
JRZ triples
Carbotech pads
AP front rotors
MA-Motorsports turbo back exhaust
reflash
manual boost controller
wheels and tires.
That's it, complete list.
Put the car on the dyno this morning running in the same trim as last week. Nothing changed. *was hoping to post the dyno sheet here but due to miscommunication I will not have it until tomorrow*
Results: 470hp max on an AWD DD machine.
Prior to the 2nd session at Daytona I weighed the GT-R on the scales in the garage. 3969 w/ driver and 1/3 tank of fuel.
Those are the facts people.
At this point I'll wait for HC's tirade and address it accordingly. Most likely by ignoring it. Oh I will speak to one item in his previous posts about the OEM Bridgestone RE070's runflats being a better tire then PS2's last year. Obviously you have never driven on the RE070 runflats as they are some of the most ill suited track tires I have seen in my life. They are utter ****. To think they are even in the same realm as PS2's demonstrates a complete lack of information and firsthand experience on HC's part.
First off I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for their contributions during the event. Both are very humble and talented drivers that keep us on our toes the entire week. It was a pleasure to race against you both and look forward to future encounters on track and off.
That being said I am here just to clear up some of the misinformation that is being volleyed around about the Cannonball GT-R and exactly where it stands in regards to Peter's GT2.
Here is a complete list of mods:
JRZ triples
Carbotech pads
AP front rotors
MA-Motorsports turbo back exhaust
reflash
manual boost controller
wheels and tires.
That's it, complete list.
Put the car on the dyno this morning running in the same trim as last week. Nothing changed. *was hoping to post the dyno sheet here but due to miscommunication I will not have it until tomorrow*
Results: 470hp max on an AWD DD machine.
Prior to the 2nd session at Daytona I weighed the GT-R on the scales in the garage. 3969 w/ driver and 1/3 tank of fuel.
Those are the facts people.
At this point I'll wait for HC's tirade and address it accordingly. Most likely by ignoring it. Oh I will speak to one item in his previous posts about the OEM Bridgestone RE070's runflats being a better tire then PS2's last year. Obviously you have never driven on the RE070 runflats as they are some of the most ill suited track tires I have seen in my life. They are utter ****. To think they are even in the same realm as PS2's demonstrates a complete lack of information and firsthand experience on HC's part.
#48
05-12-2009, 09:05 PM
Oh where to start...
First off I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for their contributions during the event. Both are very humble and talented drivers that keep us on our toes the entire week. It was a pleasure to race against you both and look forward to future encounters on track and off.
That being said I am here just to clear up some of the misinformation that is being volleyed around about the Cannonball GT-R and exactly where it stands in regards to Peter's GT2.
Here is a complete list of mods:
JRZ triples
Carbotech pads
AP front rotors
MA-Motorsports turbo back exhaust
reflash
manual boost controller
wheels and tires.
That's it, complete list.
Put the car on the dyno this morning running in the same trim as last week. Nothing changed. *was hoping to post the dyno sheet here but due to miscommunication I will not have it until tomorrow*
Results: 470hp max on an AWD DD machine.
Prior to the 2nd session at Daytona I weighed the GT-R on the scales in the garage. 3969 w/ driver and 1/3 tank of fuel.
Those are the facts people.
At this point I'll wait for HC's tirade and address it accordingly. Most likely by ignoring it. Oh I will speak to one item in his previous posts about the OEM Bridgestone RE070's runflats being a better tire then PS2's last year. Obviously you have never driven on the RE070 runflats as they are some of the most ill suited track tires I have seen in my life. They are utter ****. To think they are even in the same realm as PS2's demonstrates a complete lack of information and firsthand experience on HC's part.
First off I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for their contributions during the event. Both are very humble and talented drivers that keep us on our toes the entire week. It was a pleasure to race against you both and look forward to future encounters on track and off.
That being said I am here just to clear up some of the misinformation that is being volleyed around about the Cannonball GT-R and exactly where it stands in regards to Peter's GT2.
Here is a complete list of mods:
JRZ triples
Carbotech pads
AP front rotors
MA-Motorsports turbo back exhaust
reflash
manual boost controller
wheels and tires.
That's it, complete list.
Put the car on the dyno this morning running in the same trim as last week. Nothing changed. *was hoping to post the dyno sheet here but due to miscommunication I will not have it until tomorrow*
Results: 470hp max on an AWD DD machine.
Prior to the 2nd session at Daytona I weighed the GT-R on the scales in the garage. 3969 w/ driver and 1/3 tank of fuel.
Those are the facts people.
At this point I'll wait for HC's tirade and address it accordingly. Most likely by ignoring it. Oh I will speak to one item in his previous posts about the OEM Bridgestone RE070's runflats being a better tire then PS2's last year. Obviously you have never driven on the RE070 runflats as they are some of the most ill suited track tires I have seen in my life. They are utter ****. To think they are even in the same realm as PS2's demonstrates a complete lack of information and firsthand experience on HC's part.
Also, what are the tire requirements for the one lap?
#49
05-12-2009, 09:13 PM
The game plan going in was do not unbalance the car. Just keep it simple w/ minor mods and let the chips fall. We were shooting for a top5 finish and to be quite honest never thought a win was likely unless the attrition rate went high. This was my first OLoA and my co-driver's 4th so banked on his experience w/ a conservative approach. Right now the GT-R is severely hampered from making copious amount of power by the electronic locks in place by Nissan and with no real arsenal to address this. No point trying to break thru w/ brute force until we get a better set of lock picks to work with.
The tire rule is pretty simple: 180 * I believe* or higher tread wear rating. One set of tires on the car and 2 spares allowed. Run the same tires from start to finish.
The tire rule is pretty simple: 180 * I believe* or higher tread wear rating. One set of tires on the car and 2 spares allowed. Run the same tires from start to finish.
#50
05-12-2009, 10:05 PM
The game plan going in was do not unbalance the car. Just keep it simple w/ minor mods and let the chips fall. We were shooting for a top5 finish and to be quite honest never thought a win was likely unless the attrition rate went high. This was my first OLoA and my co-driver's 4th so banked on his experience w/ a conservative approach. Right now the GT-R is severely hampered from making copious amount of power by the electronic locks in place by Nissan and with no real arsenal to address this. No point trying to break thru w/ brute force until we get a better set of lock picks to work with.
The tire rule is pretty simple: 180 * I believe* or higher tread wear rating. One set of tires on the car and 2 spares allowed. Run the same tires from start to finish.
The tire rule is pretty simple: 180 * I believe* or higher tread wear rating. One set of tires on the car and 2 spares allowed. Run the same tires from start to finish.
I like the tire rule. Kinda levels the playing field and takes the tire factor out.
Nissans electronic lock? what is this?
#51
05-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Just referring to the fact Nissan went to alot of trouble to make sure the GT-R's didn't get modified without alot of effort.
#53
05-12-2009, 11:03 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 Oh where to start...
First off I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for their contributions during the event. Both are very humble and talented drivers that keep us on our toes the entire week. It was a pleasure to race against you both and look forward to future encounters on track and off.
That being said I am here just to clear up some of the misinformation that is being volleyed around about the Cannonball GT-R and exactly where it stands in regards to Peter's GT2.
Here is a complete list of mods:
JRZ triples
Carbotech pads
AP front rotors
MA-Motorsports turbo back exhaust
reflash
manual boost controller
wheels and tires.
That's it, complete list.
Put the car on the dyno this morning running in the same trim as last week. Nothing changed. *was hoping to post the dyno sheet here but due to miscommunication I will not have it until tomorrow*
Results: 470hp max on an AWD DD machine.
Prior to the 2nd session at Daytona I weighed the GT-R on the scales in the garage. 3969 w/ driver and 1/3 tank of fuel.
Those are the facts people.
At this point I'll wait for HC's tirade and address it accordingly. Most likely by ignoring it. Oh I will speak to one item in his previous posts about the OEM Bridgestone RE070's runflats being a better tire then PS2's last year. Obviously you have never driven on the RE070 runflats as they are some of the most ill suited track tires I have seen in my life. They are utter ****. To think they are even in the same realm as PS2's demonstrates a complete lack of information and firsthand experience on HC's part.
First off I must give due respect to Ian and Peter for their contributions during the event. Both are very humble and talented drivers that keep us on our toes the entire week. It was a pleasure to race against you both and look forward to future encounters on track and off.
That being said I am here just to clear up some of the misinformation that is being volleyed around about the Cannonball GT-R and exactly where it stands in regards to Peter's GT2.
Here is a complete list of mods:
JRZ triples
Carbotech pads
AP front rotors
MA-Motorsports turbo back exhaust
reflash
manual boost controller
wheels and tires.
That's it, complete list.
Put the car on the dyno this morning running in the same trim as last week. Nothing changed. *was hoping to post the dyno sheet here but due to miscommunication I will not have it until tomorrow*
Results: 470hp max on an AWD DD machine.
Prior to the 2nd session at Daytona I weighed the GT-R on the scales in the garage. 3969 w/ driver and 1/3 tank of fuel.
Those are the facts people.
At this point I'll wait for HC's tirade and address it accordingly. Most likely by ignoring it. Oh I will speak to one item in his previous posts about the OEM Bridgestone RE070's runflats being a better tire then PS2's last year. Obviously you have never driven on the RE070 runflats as they are some of the most ill suited track tires I have seen in my life. They are utter ****. To think they are even in the same realm as PS2's demonstrates a complete lack of information and firsthand experience on HC's part.
Will,
Let's keep this real for just a second, you and I and everyone here knows that your car is not making 470 whp and trapping 127 mph at 3900 lbs. If the AWD DD you are talking about is Forged's dyno, well I happen to know for a fact that dyno can read nearly 100 whp less than a Dyno Jet and so will many others just like it. My car dynoed 439 whp on his DD and 523 on a dynojet (-84). We also know that GT-R's with flash and exhaust are easily making well into the 500's whp.
You also left out the Aeromotions wing and big front splitter on that mod list.
Semantics aside, would you not at least agree with the fact that you had much more hp than the GT2 to trap 6 mph faster on the same night while having probably 500-600 more lbs. Would you also not agree that you had an aero advantage as well? I didn't say your car was heavily modded but there is no doubt you definitely had a power and aero advantage.
That being said, congrats on the win, you earned it and deserved it. This is a "run what ya brung" contest and you brought everything necessary to win. In just comparing the two cars, the GT2 did well for being outgunned in weight to power ratios and aero accessories. That's all I'm saying.
Last edited by heavychevy; 05-12-2009 at 11:07 PM.
#54
05-12-2009, 11:14 PM
Congrats to both parties, great competition...
Ian, I would love to speak with you about the Motons/suspension setup on the GT2 as I am having trouble dialing my car in, 4 alignments in this season so far and it's just frustrating me
Martin
Ian, I would love to speak with you about the Motons/suspension setup on the GT2 as I am having trouble dialing my car in, 4 alignments in this season so far and it's just frustrating me
Martin
#55
05-13-2009, 03:34 AM
I didn't say your car was heavily modded
.As far as sentiment is concerned. I wouldn't think Team Cannon Fodder would make any excuses for placing second. you seem to be the one doing that.
Hammad
#56
05-13-2009, 08:03 AM
The standard correction rate between a DD and DJ machine is 12.5%.
That being said, my GT-R would be ~530hp on a DJ. During the event I estimated the wheel hp to be just a shade over 500 whenever asked about the power levels. I think where the higher trap speeds come in is due to the transmission on the GT-R. I would love to go out on track heads up against one of the new Porsche PDK equipped cars.
Has anyone run similarly equipped PDK and traditional cars back to back on track and compared times? Sorry for my ignorance here but I haven't really keep up w/ things in the Porsche world for a few years. Can someone confirm that this has happened and if so what was the outcome? How much faster was the PDK equipped car?
The aero mods did slip my mind last night when typing that post. My brain is still getting back to normal speed post OLoA. Yes the car has the aeroMotions wing and a splitter by a company out of HK called Turn3. Which is kind of amusing when I think about it since turn 3 at Daytona took a fairly substantial bite out of the bottom of the splitter.
Here is my post OLoA review of the aero from another forum:
That all being said I won't go so far as to say we had an aero advantage. At Daytona both Ian and myself had similar terminal speeds ~173mph. In the afternoon session I rose to 177 while Ian clocked in at 179. Which by the way earn my respect in only a way that driving street tires around daytona can illict. 
Both Ian and myself got out of the cars post morning session and couldn't hold a steady hand to save our life. LOL.
In-car video from the week: http://www.youtube.com/user/42Autosports
That being said, my GT-R would be ~530hp on a DJ. During the event I estimated the wheel hp to be just a shade over 500 whenever asked about the power levels. I think where the higher trap speeds come in is due to the transmission on the GT-R. I would love to go out on track heads up against one of the new Porsche PDK equipped cars.
Has anyone run similarly equipped PDK and traditional cars back to back on track and compared times? Sorry for my ignorance here but I haven't really keep up w/ things in the Porsche world for a few years. Can someone confirm that this has happened and if so what was the outcome? How much faster was the PDK equipped car?
The aero mods did slip my mind last night when typing that post. My brain is still getting back to normal speed post OLoA. Yes the car has the aeroMotions wing and a splitter by a company out of HK called Turn3. Which is kind of amusing when I think about it since turn 3 at Daytona took a fairly substantial bite out of the bottom of the splitter.
Here is my post OLoA review of the aero from another forum:
aeroMOTIONS
Greg and Drew are some of the better people I have found to work with in this industry. Their enthusiasm for their product and rampant development process is refreshing. They deliver what they promise. Period.
The R2 wing worked amazing. The ease of adjustment, functionality and fit were spot on. We literally installed the wing and actuators and started driving north to South Bend to start the event. On the way up we started playing w/ the hand held controller. Press the braking button and the wing snaps into position. Wait wtf was that... Release and hit it again. No way. 75mph on the interstate we could feel the rear of the GT-R squat a 1/4in each time we depressed the braking button. Rough estimates on 900lbs springs put that close to 200lbs of downforce at full braking @ 75mph. Wow. The wing dropping to reduce drag on the straight was noticeable as well. Can see it on the trackmate acceleration data.
I can see why so many organization banned active aero so long ago. Now here is an affordable, viable and effective solution.
We will be helping lobby the national race organization to allow more classes to run the aeroMotions wing. I never thought I'd say this but here is affordable active aero.
The 'Turn 3' splitter came via the recommendation of Greg. The splitter balanced out the car very well and help up all week without incident. Barring my dragging it thru NASCAR 3/4 at daytona.
. Given that it was driven into the ground at +165mph it held up very well. Now I've just got to patch up a hole. I have the first protype piece and althought there was a slight fitment issue I have been assured it is being fixed for future orders. Overall good bang for the buck.
Greg and Drew are some of the better people I have found to work with in this industry. Their enthusiasm for their product and rampant development process is refreshing. They deliver what they promise. Period.
The R2 wing worked amazing. The ease of adjustment, functionality and fit were spot on. We literally installed the wing and actuators and started driving north to South Bend to start the event. On the way up we started playing w/ the hand held controller. Press the braking button and the wing snaps into position. Wait wtf was that... Release and hit it again. No way. 75mph on the interstate we could feel the rear of the GT-R squat a 1/4in each time we depressed the braking button. Rough estimates on 900lbs springs put that close to 200lbs of downforce at full braking @ 75mph. Wow. The wing dropping to reduce drag on the straight was noticeable as well. Can see it on the trackmate acceleration data.
I can see why so many organization banned active aero so long ago. Now here is an affordable, viable and effective solution.
We will be helping lobby the national race organization to allow more classes to run the aeroMotions wing. I never thought I'd say this but here is affordable active aero.
The 'Turn 3' splitter came via the recommendation of Greg. The splitter balanced out the car very well and help up all week without incident. Barring my dragging it thru NASCAR 3/4 at daytona.
. Given that it was driven into the ground at +165mph it held up very well. Now I've just got to patch up a hole. I have the first protype piece and althought there was a slight fitment issue I have been assured it is being fixed for future orders. Overall good bang for the buck.
Both Ian and myself got out of the cars post morning session and couldn't hold a steady hand to save our life. LOL. In-car video from the week: http://www.youtube.com/user/42Autosports
#57
05-13-2009, 11:46 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 
FWIW Highly modified to me is just under heavily modified, meaning no turbo swaps, no engine swaps, no internal engine mods, chassis mods, interior in tact, etc. and more likely to be street legal. Highly modified is like bolt-ons which can still do a good number for performance, but are no where near stock, but you could probably get back to stock in a day maybe two with one guy working.
I don't think highly modified is doing them an injustice.
#58
05-13-2009, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the kind words Will.
We are beginning development of the 993, 996, and 997 Dynamic Wings. We're slated to do the same full 3D CFD aero analysis on the 997 that we did for the GT-R. One or our accomplices has a 997 GT3 RS that will become the project car to test and tune the 997 map.
We also have active front splitters coming out to work in concert with the wings.
If you have any questions about the wings, or the Porsche development projects, feel free to contact me at gmark@aeromotions.com
Congratulations to Ian and Peter for making us bite our nails for an entire week. Good show guys.
Greg
We are beginning development of the 993, 996, and 997 Dynamic Wings. We're slated to do the same full 3D CFD aero analysis on the 997 that we did for the GT-R. One or our accomplices has a 997 GT3 RS that will become the project car to test and tune the 997 map.
We also have active front splitters coming out to work in concert with the wings.
If you have any questions about the wings, or the Porsche development projects, feel free to contact me at gmark@aeromotions.com
Congratulations to Ian and Peter for making us bite our nails for an entire week. Good show guys.
Greg
#59
05-13-2009, 02:03 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551
Greg, how does the aeromotions determine when and how much to adjust for braking? Does it use accelerometers or is it tapped into the braking system somehow? What about during coasting or lesser throttle applications on portions of the track, is all of this preprogrammed or is the head unit that operates everything actually monitoring vehicle inputs through hardwired sensors or is everything g based using accel and decel perameters?
#60
05-13-2009, 02:24 PM
Greg, how does the aeromotions determine when and how much to adjust for braking? Does it use accelerometers or is it tapped into the braking system somehow? What about during coasting or lesser throttle applications on portions of the track, is all of this preprogrammed or is the head unit that operates everything actually monitoring vehicle inputs through hardwired sensors or is everything g based using accel and decel perameters?
Everything is preprogrammed in. You can adjust angles, or override the computer, from the drivers seat with the wired remote. It makes tuning easy
We call the basic angle the maneuvering angle. This is set to where the car is neutral in cornering. The wing is in this maneuvering position if you're coasting, turning, or barely on the brakes. This keeps the wing from changing when drivers are looking for fine modulation at 10/10ths.
For braking, we set deceleration parameters (thresholds with hysteresis) that signal that the car is braking. For aerodynamically clean cars like the 911's and R35's, .3G's means the driver is on the brakes and it's time for the wing to give max df and more drag.
The braking angle is right around stall. Slightly below stall if you're being conservative for side wind gusts (factory tune) and have a heavy car good rear brakes. In that case, you're best letting the brakes do their job. Incidentally, putting a lot of DF on the rear keeps the front brakes a lot cooler - you just have to keep in mind that rears will get hotter. For lighter cars, we'll go into stall a bit for the increased drag. The white E36, for ex, with 200 rwhp, got around the track faster with more stall. For the 911's, only track testing will tell where the final .5% is hiding in the braking angle.
Finally, the wing drops into straightaway mode, minimum drag, when you cross a set speed threshold (and are not cornering - lateral g's are low).