There have been several discussions going on about what is and what isn't compatible with the STOCK Porsche 2001-2005 CLUTCH and STEERING systems...

http://www.pentosin.de/flexxtrader/d...80ac8cd19bd970

http://www.beckarnley.com/marketing/...in%20flyer.pdf


We've had several members have their cars catch fire due to powersteering/ clutch system leaks dripping pentosin CHF 11/202 onto hot turbos/cats and flaming at that high flash point listed in the first link. It's pretty obvious that the stuff is pretty nasty.

It's also well known that the stuff is NOT supposed to come into contact with ANY rubber. Any tech worth his or her salt should tell each and every one of us that this is the case... I had a drop of the stuff drip onto a rubber watch band and guess what??? It ate it... Ate the watch band... Nice stuff, Pentosin...So take care when dealing with this stuff around those water lines that cross above the rear left axle.

Now for the "compatibility" discussion... Link two pretty much speaks for itself!

Because I'm a curious sort, I've also taken a 50/50 ratio of Pentosin and ATF and poured them into a cup and left it on a workbench. I'll report back, but I think the info in the links posted is very useful for all of us to keep in mind as we move forward in making decisions on maintenance and repairs!

Mike

 

and for sure don't get it anywhere near your condoms

j/k good info Mike thanks...

 

Imagine what that stuff would do to your Johnson rod?

Mike

 

Ouch. that would hurt on the 'ol johnson !

 

What soirt oif ATF? In my case I used 100% synthetic ATF and drove for alkl of 5 miles - I had no chjoic. We'll see how it goes but I felkt I had no choice. <shrug> It was fluxhed out and I may flush it agaihn when I finally get it home - fingers crossed. I fly Thuirsdsay morning to Dayton and rive back to Northern VA that day. Hopefully the accumulator is okay, the hoses don';t burst, I don't go up inh a ball of flames, and I have a working P/S system when I return home. Any garages between here and there? Driving alone as the plane tickets are BUX and my friend won;'t do the 9 houir rental thing up and Porsche back - go figure

P.S. Trashed out of my minhd tonight! (lol)

 

So what do you expect to see when it's mixed with ATF? The ATF you used is a synthetic (showing my ignorance here, are they all synthetic)?
The specs on it are showing it to be a high performance hydraulic fluid; I wonder how it compares to the special stuff from Honda, many people swear by that stuff.

 

Funny you mention the Honda stuff, I was stranded next to a mini mart and all of their P/S fluid stated specifically that it was NOT compatible with Honda. They were all also petro derivates and I didn't use them. Friends doing searches on the 'net for us found some BMW guys claiming that fully synthetic ATF was a suitable temp substitute and they found me a parts place like 2 miles away that stocked it but NOT Pentosin, no one had the damned stuff and it was late Friday afternoon. Local Porsche dealer was 30+ away, had sent their techs home (Friday night), don't work Staturdays, couldn't even look at the car until Monday, and couldn't WORK on the car till Wednesday - I had to be in Florida this morning. So rock&hard place I did the ATF for the 5 freakin' miles it took me to get to a lift, sue me. Easy making decisions in hindsight no? Silly hard line flare apparently failed and after 7 hours of dicking with it we gave up. I took a rental home 9+ hours and the shop MADE a part to fix it and bought Petosin - they flushed the system. I'm not too freaked about the short term mix although I will be checking out the front resevoir since at the time we didn't knowe the damned thing exist3ed! I'd like to know more about how the two systems mix and why the hell there's TWO resevoirs feeding the SAME system? Who's bright engineering idea was THAT?

What do I expect? Well the pujmp was moaning a bit till we added fluid but the clutch worked fine and sois did the steering. It showed no fluid onh the stick but I doubt oit was fully dry - it was still peeing. We cracked it all open to work on it and didn't bleed - worked fine near as I could tell. I thihnk it will be fine for the drive home unless another damn3ed leak springs. The rubber water lines have been cleaned, we'll see if this **** kills them in days or not. I cannot just start swapping parts ***** nilly, no choice in the matter since it ain't my damned shop. I have impinged on this shop's hospitality enough and Switzer is 200+ miles away and unwilling to look at it for a week - they say the lines weren't touched when they did the clutch and it did last the 5 hour drive home from the previous owner. <shrug> I intend to drive it home and if the water lines go I am hosed badly, that bridge I cross when I get there. I didn't see much fluid on the lines when I was under there but th3e *** end was soaked with it and so was the exhaust - I am glad we didn't pull a Challenger! I just hope the p[aint is okay, it was heavily waxed at least and we did wipe it down as best we could.

We'll see - maybe I will mix some of the stuff together myself and see if there's a reaction. If I get a chance or find a sjop I'll have it fully flshed but for now I do not exactly have a boig choice here. I got other things to attend to that are far more important frankl;y, I need this car home so I can concentrate on those other things...

P.S> "Yes I saw the blurb that said don't mix it with ATF in the PDF blah blah. What sort of ATF are we talking exactly? I didn';t use anything petro - it was ATF or run it dry longer. Sorry if there wasn't a flat bed standing by for me, my choices were limited and I was SOL hours from anyplace familiar. I got lucky to find good people willing to help as much as they did, I made the best of it.

 

Fu, fu-fu-fu, fu-fu-fu-fun facts...FUN FACTS!

Couldn't resist

Thanks for the interesting read Mike - good info to know.

 

I mixed standard Dextron IV synthetic ATF fluid with CHF202...

So far they've just changed color into a dark brownish goo... And the bottom of the cup (which is a plastic solo cup) is deformed from the outside. I fully expect the stuff to have eaten thru the cup by tomorrow...

And I'm pretty sure this same effect will be had on the seals of the powersteering pump... Pentosin is nasty stuff, and I wouldn't deviate from their directions... Anyone is certainly able to do as they wish. But don't cry the blues here if/when they powersteering pump/reservoir/clutch hydraulic system needs a full R&R...

I asked my indy, Robert at Lufteknic about this in an email last night and he stated that he won't even mix CHF11 and CHF202 because of the known instability issues with the stuff... And he works EXCLUSIVELY on porsches (and did THREE clutch swaps into my car for the price of one to insure I got the right clutch for the job...and stands by his work 110% )

When stranded without the right fluid, have it TOWED or pay far more than a tow bill...Live and learn...

Mike

 

I guess I'll ask the stupid question as I can't seem to find the answer searching and this thread seems to be a good excuse to ask(thanks Mike!)...

Why does Porsche use Pentosin if it's that unworldly toxic..and why can't we change it out and run something different in our systems, like regular Dot 4 or 5 or something? Does it have something to do with the power steering sharing it? If so, what do people do when they convert to GT2 style?

 

Hopefully it wasn't a Panarai Rubber Watch Band

 

From what I've been told, the systems combined rubber seals require the lubricating properties of the Pentosin CHF11/202. Using a brake fluid, which is not necessarily compatible with some rubber items either, and certainly doesn't like paint, isn't the answer, unless you replace the components with the EVOMs upgrade GT2 kit, which breaks the link between the powersteering and clutch hydraulic systems... Only issue there is you have to remove the tranny to install the components in the tranny for the GT2 slave conversion, as well as remove the powersteering reservoir/pump to instal the plugs that will cut the connections between the two systems...

Mike

 

Hmmmm. seems like a worthwhile thing to do if you already have your tranny out for a clutch or something...oh yeah, and you happen to have the GT2 conversion sitting around...Thanks Mike...

 

Fortunately not! It was a cheapie watch I simply love wearing in the shop... it's an ESQ Octane... Surprisingly hard to find those replacements for those bands, but I got two just incase...

I've swapped out a number of these components for other members here and I've got a great tip for protecting against spills... Get a LARGE one quart freezer bag and put it up over the ball of the accumulator so it'll catch the accumulator AND the fluid as you loosen it and remove it from the slave... This will keep pentosin OFF anything of value, like water lines, CV boots, and YOU... and your cheapie ESQ watch band!

Mike

 

I did the evoms kit upgrade, as many know...well worth it.

Guy who put atf into his pentosin...Mike is trying to give you data. The bottom line, you may have screwed up the car. I bet 10 minutes or an hour is not a big deal, if you flushed it. Three weeks may be a problem. I remember for my first accumulator/slave problem we flushed the system for hours...costs....and probably 6 to 8 bottles of fluid. Easy. So when my accumulator went again, the evoms kit looked good.

On pentosin: I hate the stuff. But, they chose it for some reason....

I would flush you system a as much as you can justify...perhaps


Jeff