Good to get all perspectives. I to in principle do not want to willing roll over and comply with some illegal "search and siezure." Also I don't want someone marring up my expensive interior with their utility belt hardware or the butt end some XD 40 as they rummage around on a witch hunt.

 

Yes he can if the reason you are initially pulled over is legitimate.

 

thats called CAUSE

 

I hate searches, always say no, nothing good can come of a search as Mikelly said, worry about the "plant" of something... They're searching for a reason to make your life suck, way better to not give them any help!

 

Dennis, It really boils down to jurisdiction. However, you're generally right. Once you're detained on the side of the road, they can certainly do what they want. What I don't want to do is give consent for anything they may do. I always inform them that I have a permit and a weapon and then inform them that they are "in charge" until they secure the scene to make themselves safe. Beyond that, I don't have any interest in anyone searching my car.

If they want to go from there, game on, ring my attorney and get my bail, because I am not going quietly... This is a real hot button for me personally, because I know of several police officers in my own jurisdiction that should not be in uniform due to conduct and illegal activity issues.

My son was stopped when he was 16 one night. The TWO Va. state troopers decided to pull him out of his car and pat him down. Then they searched his car, found that his tail lights weren't DOT approved, and SCRAPED his inspection sticker off the car, then gave him a ticket for improper equipment. THEN, they searched the car. The idiots didn't realize his uncle was their supervisor. Needless to say, I filed a complaint and the two officers were repremanded. I know cops have a tuff job. I know they deal with the worst people in society... However, not everyone they come into contact with is guilty of a serious or arresting offense. More often than not, the officer is trying to "find something" to site you with or arrest you for... It has changed so much since I was in law enforcement. We used to be there to "protect and serve" the public... Now it seems as if we have people doing the job for one purpose, write tickets or arrest people. Yea, I know they have a tuff job. Do it properly, or don't do it.

And for "US" citizens, learn the rules... DON'T engage in any "informative" or "helpful" discussions... Cops want you to TALK. They want you to give them information. They listen to everything and will use it against you in court. They are "representatives of the court" and the judge will remind you of that if you accuse them of lying or changing the facts from the incident. It is upon each of us to understand the rules of the game we're playing before encountering law enforcement. Remember, Anytime you're detained on the side of the road for a traffic offense, you're essentially in their custody, even if you're sitting in your car. From the point in time that you roll the window down or acknowledge the officer, it's "GAME on" in their mind... Better be in your's too.

Mike

 

Wow.

 

Hi Mike,

First, beautiful car!

My comments are based on U.S. Constitutional Law, so, as you said, a particular state could have more restrictive requirements and require additional burdens of proof. In criminal procedure, the U.S. Constitution is the legal floor. In California because of voter initiative Prop 8, the U.S. Constitution is the floor -- CA law provides no greater crim pro rights.

Your view represents a view that I have often taken and flip flop back to on occasion. It is a game. Sometimes the more open/honest approach is right while other times I think your approach is right. No perfect answers here. If you're good at reading people, I think it's best to start out polite and guarded. If you can figure out that they're just trying to see if you have warrants, then you can open up. But, as you mentioned, if they think they're CSI and want to cook up a case, then be combative.

 

Ditto Dennis, I really wanted Silver/grey... I hate having to detail black paint...

You're absolutley correct... it boils down to being able to read them... On the flip side, one night two years ago my wife and I were going to dinner and it was a new restraunt in town... I was on the cellphone with my business partner, trying to locate it, and I turned the wrong way down a one way street... RIGHT in front of a cop... Guy was a seasoned veteren, had zero interest in writing me a ticket, and even found the location for me from dispatch... I was dead wrong and told him "write me for being distracted and stupid, because I know better". He laughed and said "I don't want to ruin your evening and we're all human..."

There are more good than bad...

Mike

 

There's only so much protecting and serving to be done at 3am on a Tuesday or Wednesday night, you should know that. When I stop a car at those hours, you're right, the only reason I'm doing it is to take someone to try take them to jail, which doesn't pan out as often as TV would have you believe. If you have no warrants, have a good license, and aren't drunk, then its have a safe night and slow down from me.

 

I think that is protecting and serving. Thanks for your great service!

 

So it's a crime to be out at 3AM?

I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm out at that time of the morning. I understand that you're out there trying to keep drunks off the street and crooks from breaking into businesses... That's "reasonable"... But we both know that when an officer detains someone on the side of the road, their strategy is to get the suspect (which is what we are from the point in time you light up the night) to open up and offer information... No thanks...

Know the game...
Mike

 

You've got to be kidding! Go to traffic court and see how many "good people" are standing in line to pay traffic fines. You'll see average joe blow citizens lined up to pay their tickets. The vast majority of people who receive tickets have no other contact with cops other than when they get tickets. The motor cop's role is to enforce traffic laws. They do it by writing tickets. How many people on this site have received speeding tickets or been ticketed for no front plate. I don't understand what you are saying at all. When a cop writes you a ticket it's because he wants to write it, not because he has to. Cops have broad discretion in terms of citing you or letting you go.

Your statement about a cop having the right to search your vehicle because of an emission violation is completely wrong. Besides, unless your car is smoking badly I don't see how you'd be stopped for an emissions violation. Please explain the nexus between your car having an emissions violations and the cop having the right to search your center console? Or how making an illegal U-turn gives the cop probable cause to search your glove box? I can't make that connection.

 

If you do disclose that you are carrying a firearm with a permit are you still given the liberty to decline a search?

 

what if he plants something ??? dont assume that they are all honest.

 

When did I say its a crime to be out at 3am? You said all cops do now a days is cite and arrest when back in "your" day if was about protecting and serving (I don't work for LAPD so that's not my motto but that's irrelevant). If there's no calls for service what am I supposed to do? If you have a tail light out, no front plate (illegal in CA) etc, expect to get pulled over. Like you said, know the game.

In any case I can't stop you if I don't have reasonable suspicion or probable cause now can I?