I dont think the meth comes into play much, as most people are running race gas at the track anyway.

 

I have a k24/18g and really think Tial GT28 is a superior turbo in every way, just look at the graphs...It spools faster, makes more HP and Tq..More area under curve, water cooled ball bearing turbos...

what not to like ? The Price is significantly higher than k24/18g.

 

Tony,

True, but what about the cooling factor of meth. Anyhow, let's get some times...I think a lot of us would like to see what these can do!

 

That dyno of my car was one of the first pulls. My car actually made almost 595 on the EPL dyno and almost 640ftlbs. However, I am spraying 100% Meth. The Alpha 28s DO spool WWAAAYYY faster than 18G's and do make a little more power. I have an 18G car and would consider the TiAL GT28 an "upgrade". All things being equal on my car, the 28's would make a LOT more power and a LOT sooner than I do now. I would also LOVE to see one at the track. Hopefully soon...

 

I agree with Mr. Walnut. I disagree that the GT28s are better than K24/18gs. I've been in several ball bearing Gt28s. They are a very good turbo, no question. However, they can surge (physics not the tune) and can be difficult to modulate especially if you're tracking the car. Also, going GT28s is a much more expensive proposition with water cooling that isn't required on K24/18gs. Porsche does not use any ball bearing turbos in their production cars. I believe it's safe to say they know more than anyone on this or any other board concerning this subject. The GT28s typically do not have the top end of K24/18gs. This has been proven several times over the years on this forum. The only caveat is a few people such as Artiza who have some extensive additional items. Lastly, the tuners (all of them) want to sell you the "latest greatest" (sarcasm intended) thing and make it out to the the best ever. Many of these things aren't proven yet. Till they are proven I will remain skeptical of the product. They will disagree by saying they are but it's usually by them on their equipment. There are so many tricks to manipulating dynos. DO NOT try to compare dynos. Just do a search and you will easily find one tuner in particular recently making a back handed compliment regarding someone's recent achievement and mentioning how their dyno reads this way or that way. As far as spool, yes physics is physics (one of my areas) but it's negligible. It's 200-300 rpm. My 18gs spool about 300ish rpm later than my K16s with a flash.
I'm going to express my opinion for a minute. There is a larger issue here that I'm going to address for a moment. I have no dog in this fight. I'm not selling anything. I only care about you guys, not the tuners, and that you get the best deal for your money. I get sick of all the marketing on this forum sometimes. If it's not one tuner making snide remarks about someone's dyno or Vivid and their flashing logo it's something else. A lot of the members on here are extremely intelligent people. This forum is about you, the enthusiast who has a passion for this stuff. It's about expressing ideas and the free exchange of information for the greater good of our group. I AM NOT interested in the same people time and time again hawking their stuff and making questionable comments. Saying how they tune very differently than someone else even though the other person invented and wrote the source code. Do your homework, research and talk to guys who have this stuff. Please do not buy into all of the marketing. I'll stick with proven, well documented, repeatable, objective analysis.
IMHO K24/18gs > GT28s.

Let the spin begin, pun intended lol.

 

wow...For the cost k24/18g is the best and hard to beat. That i agree. Gt28 costs almost 2 times a K24/18g.

when it comes to performance...its hard to argue numbers when ran on the same dyno. what am i missing here? I have an 18g turbo so not biased here...

 

Reekn -

I notice you mentioned you have been in several 28rs cars... have you been in any tial alpha 28rs car that were built in the past 2 months?

The standard 2860 compressor wheel is actually smaller then a 18g compressor wheel. The new alpha 28's have a special treatment from Tial, allowing them to significantly out flow the 18gs.

 

Good post and I agree. Tony you are great but your response is exactly what the above post refers to no insult intended.

I think to the OP you need a plan for what you want to do with the car. the fastest drag car, track car, or just a badass on the street. each is a different application. I would go with the "latest and greatest" special treatment stuff if you are trying to pound someone in the quarter mile.

personally I like bang for the buck and reliability.

so if you just want some more great power and you have K-16's just get them hybrid and enjoy.

as for the K24 (my set up) it has way more power than I will ever need at the track but for reliability the actuator rods/ waste gates are a known achilles heel (broke four) no turner has an answer dont care what they say even protomotive.

I kept the k24's but converted to external waste gates and dump tubes.
now I have the power and reliability I want and it didnt cost a fortune or an entirely new set up (my car started with k-24's)

my 2 cents your decision

tom

 

alpha 28's cost 2x as much as k24/18??

 

I said almost. I got a great deal on my k24/18g's not sure what others paid. But yes its in an order of magnitude higher. Talk to your tuner and discuss numbers, then see if you see if its worth the premium for you.

 

I don't think the price difference is staggering. There are vendors selling 18G "kits" for $5500-$6000. You can buy TiAL's GT28's (turbos only) from Titan or EPL for $3500-$3800? How much are 18G's only? $3000? $3500? I think the new technology is worth the extra couple hundy.

 

Tom -

K24/18Gs can now be managed with an upgraded wastegate with a straight bar vs. the normal kink that break after exposure to heat and moisture causing rust. I'd be willing to bet going to the straight rod would likely solve most of your reliability issues with wastegates. This option is as of about 1-2 months ago.

As far as the turbos go you really can't go wrong with either turbo. They each have their distinctive benefits, but anyone coming from a K16 setup will be equally impressed with either. It will be interesting to see the difference in track times, max hp, etc out of the Alphas. There is a significant price difference between a new K24/18G setup and Alpha using a BB cartridge as well (about 2,000-2,500 extra for the turbos last I checked).

-Wes

 

Dude, the majority of your rant is about the OLD garrett 28 turbos.... have you not seen the dyno sheet for the new alpha 28's? That is what should be the comparison now IMO.

If you have a stock k16 car, which a lot of people have before the modding frenzy begins, then the cost is only marginally higher for alpha 28's vs k24/18g.

If you already have k24 turbos, then yes the 18g upgrade is quite a bit cheaper.

 

No mooching at all. I have received a ton of help and guidance from various 6speeders over the past year or so, so I can at least reciprocate something.

I will just say this: I was planning for months to go k24/18g upgrade (I have flashed k16s now) but with the release of the new Tial alpha 28's (see audikp's post and dyno on this thread) I have since changed my tune. I should be joining that club, without meth to start, very soon...

But you would be happier with either one for sure. Just comes down to budget and objectives as others have mentioned.

 

"There is a significant price difference between a new K24/18G setup and Alpha using a BB cartridge as well (about 2,000-2,500 extra for the turbos last I checked).

-Wes[/quote]"

Wes,

That's my understanding as well, that's why i purchased the 18g turbos from Titan. Also the Tial lead times were super long on these.