Look...it's really easy. Start at WOT well before 60 mph. Shift quickly. Stay at WOT past 130 mph. Done.

What you run shows how fast your car is on that day, at that time, in that area. No tricks. No mysteries.

 

Divexxtreme -

If there is a K24/18g car with injectors and a tune that can pull 20 car lengths on me on pump gas, I want my car tuned by that tuner. I'd bet that most plain-jain K24/18g cars with whatever injectors and 1.2 bar are almost equal if they all line up in 3rd gear and floor it. Maybe a car one way or the other.

There is just not enough magic that can make one car waaaaaaaaaay faster unless there is something wrong with one of the cars. This tuning stuff is not complete rocket science. I think Tony @ EPL does a great job which is why I went with him. I just can't see a similar car being so different with a different tune.

It's sooooooo hard to compare any of these numbers IMO.

There is no way I can be convinced otherwise.

This 60-130 time is as much about technique as a 0-60 time with a launch or a 1/4 mile time.

 

If a K24/18G car is running low 6's (regardless of what octane he is using), than that car would have indeed put 20 lengths on you...assuming you each drove at the same place and in the same conditions....and also the same way (same shift points and shift speed) that you did during your 60-130 runs. Period.

No one is saying Tony didn't do a great job.

LOL..and you think I care if you are convinced?

I think you're simply upset that your car isn't as fast you thought it was and this is your way of expressing that.


Wrong. It does require some driver's skill (unless it's a TIP, the car can't shift itself), but not NEARLY as much skill as a 1/4 mile time or 0-60 does.

Have you ever driven your car down a dragstrip? Have you ever tried to quickly launch your car from a dead stop? Just the fact that you stated that shifting at WOT once or twice (i.e., running a 60-130 time) is as difficult as properly launching a car from a dig makes me think that you never have...or else, you wouldn't be saying that.

 

relax for a second and listen.

I'm not upset for one second about any of this. What I'm saying is that I simply do not believe there is a K24/18g car on pump gas (because, yes, I think octane helps) making 1.2 bar that can pull 20 car lengths on another K24/18g car with a different tune. I'm not talking about my car here. I'm talking about ANY k24/18g car compared to ANY other K24/18g car. If you have enough fuel and a decent tune and the same boost is is not happening - 20 cars - are you joking?

Launching my car is pretty easy since I have launch control.

I haven't driven my car at a drag strip. Road coarse stuff only.

 

Good stuff, I have some noobish questions. I thought I would be a 24/18 guy, but with the recent in my opinion popularity of these new quick spool alphas, I have found myself thinking that I may like the alphas better. So questions? Does the alpha spool 100-200 rpms quicker then a 24/18 or more like 700-900 rpms quicker? Is there any hardware benefits ie no wastegate actuator on the alphas to break, which we occasionlly see on the 24/18's or any other things to consider that I may not have thought of? Thanks for the advice, just curious.

Josh

 

Vince,

I notice you say you have a tcu upgrade that's allows you to rev to 7200... You engine rev limiter is set nearly 400 rpm below that.... Just an FYI, you likely have throttle body shut down 6750-7200.......

Easily adressed, but keep in mind the tcu has to work with the dme.....your performance will with out question be effected...

 

From our low 2nd gear pull it seems it was more like 800rpm not 100rpm - he walked by about 3 cars until my boost came on and then it was even (well, his lead didn't get worse).

My car started life as an X50 car so it was a no brainer from a $$$ stand point.

If you have K16s, I'd say the GT28 alpha is a better turbo than the K24/18g. Worth the extra money would be for you to decide. Having a K24 made into a K24/18g is MUCH cheaper than going with an entirely new turbo.

 

Hey Tony,

Vince doesn't have a TCU upgrade yet.

So, what's your opinion here?

Don't you think it's almost impossible for a K24/18g car to be 20 car lengths faster than another K24/18g car on the same boost with the same gas providing the cars are healthy?

There cannot be that much difference between tunes.

 

I'm perfectly relaxed. You began taking a defensive posture in this thread and posted a few innacurate absolutes when making your point. I simply responded in kind.

I'm confused why you keep bringing up the pump gas argument, since the only K24/18G cars that have hit low 6's are either running race fuel, or pump fuel with meth (which is essentially the same as using race fuel).

60-130 times don't lie. Whatever fuel they were using, if they ran a 60-130 in in 6.1'ish seconds over a distance of 898 feet compared to your car which ran, say a 7.9 over a distance of 1168 feet...well, that's a difference of 270 feet. A 996TT is around 14.5 feet long, which equals 18.6 lenghts. I don't know what else to tell you.

What you might consider doing is going to a dragstrip and seeing what your trap speed is. That will tell us a lot...as it should be over 130 mph.

Also, you could send me the raw data from your runs so I can tell you if you were shifting slowly, early, if you were spinning, if you were going uphill, etc...

You can send me the raw .dbn files to my email at divexxtreme@hotmail.com. I'll review them for you and tell you what I find.

Launching a manual car well from a stop is MUCH, MUCH, more diffficult than making a decent 60-130 run. That's why 60-130 runs are so great because pretty much anyone can do them. Plus, we can analyze the data and find out a lot more information than any 1/4 mile run or head-to-head race can give us.

 

scott, your patience amazes me sometimes...

 

This is most of your problem. You need to start at 35mph and floor it. You need to be making FULL boost/power when you hit 60mph. This is EXACTLY what I mean about knowing how to drive your car to it's advantage. Scott is right. Your car is only as fast as you drive it. I'm not going to sit here and say my car or anyones car will put 20 cars on anyone, but if your car runs 8seconds 60-130 with you driving it, that is EXACTLY what is going to happen, period. You guys say you don't care about the 60-130, until you figure it out, and run a 6.75 or something.
Oh and by the way, when I FIRST started doing 60-130's, I was in the 7.0-7.6 range too, until I figured it out and finally out of the blue I ran a 6.8. You'll get there guys, keep trying, it's not easy.

 

I think you missed my whole point. I'm not trying to be defensive at all.

I couldn't care less about this 60-130 EXCEPT that if there is a car that has the same hardware as mine that runs 18 car lengths faster from 60-130 on the same gas, I want it

That's the reason I keep bringing up the pump gas thing - - when people start talking about different 60-130 times trying to compare one car to the next, it's almost impossible because that's a big variable.

I know our EPL cars are not slow by any means. But to line one up with another one and hit the gas is a pretty easy way to compare power.

I can imagine car's running more boost or better fuel running waaay faster than mine. What I can't imagine is a car set-up like mine (that means: same turbos, similarly flowing injectors and the same peak boost) running that much faster (18 car lengths) based a tune alone. That's all I was saying.

It's obvious to me that if someone throws some 104 octane in and has a file that will up the boost a bit and produce better timing from it and then shifts a bit better, they will be going faster from 60-130.

I'd rather LOWER the boost and take it to a real track anyway

 

Thanks for the advice.

I guess my point is, if you start flooring it at 35mph and reach full boost by 60mph and then do the rest of your run resulting inm let's just say a 6.5 sec 60-130 time and then I go do it wrong and run an 8.5 sec 60-130 and THEN we go line up at 50mph and run and our cars are within a car length or so on each other, I'd say the 60-130 time is not very indicative of a car's performance.

I'm not trying to make it more complicated. I'm confused how this whole 60-130 thing started anyway.

I don't street race - maybe a friendly pull between friends to see how the cars stack up.

I'm really not interested in learning how to make my car have a fast 60-130 time but, it is interesting how many things make a HUGE difference in that 60-130 #.

 

I absolutely did not miss your point Jason. You however are missing ours. My car with 24/18G's, exhaust and injectors ONLY, ran 6.6-6.8 ALL the time. I belive you have the EXACT same car. Like it or not, you're not driving correctly to MAXIMIZE your 60-130, thats all. That does not mean your car is slow by any means, your just not making it perform where others may be. I guess our point is (whether you believe it or not): if you race someone, with the same mods, who is quicker 60-130, you will get beat by whatever length it is, be it 1 cars or 21 cars. You HAVE a fast car tuned by the SAME tuner that tuned MY car with the same mods. Absolutely no offense here, it's just how you're driving it. I've told Vince and Vinod both, how to do these 60-130's, starting at 50mph is NOT the right way. To add to that, I'm personally impressed your running 8's starting at 55!!!!

 

Well, I guess I was looking at it differently.

I was thinking the 60-130 time is not important if you are lining up with somone at the same speed and hitting the gas. At that point, the only thing that would matter is your car's power and your ability to shift.

I agree, if I used the proper technique, I could have a lower 60-130 # but my point was that # doesn't mean much if the cars are making similar power and you're starting at the same speed.

I only got involved in this 60-130 thing after our fun runs and then Vince and Vinod asked me to run one just to see.

I put the thing on my windshield, somehow found a hole in the traffic, slowed to 55mph and floored it - not a lot of technique