93 octane + water/meth vs 117 octane
#46
07-05-2009, 09:44 AM
I once asked my tuner about the water/meth kit. He was concerned rhere is to much risk with Meth and water injection. If you run out of water or get a clogged jet, you are screwed because your programming required the mixture.
Otherwise, I have seen the significant drop in IAT on some cars that are just so appealing.
Otherwise, I have seen the significant drop in IAT on some cars that are just so appealing.
A good quality kit will have fail-safes built in so that in the event of low flow (clogged jet) or low level, the car returns to wastegate boost levels until such time the flow is restored or you've added fluid to the tank. I have checked all these failsafes on my car and all work very well, as long as you've wired the system correctly.
#47
07-05-2009, 09:48 AM
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I once asked my tuner about the water/meth kit. He was concerned rhere is to much risk with Meth and water injection. If you run out of water or get a clogged jet, you are screwed because your programming required the mixture.
Otherwise, I have seen the significant drop in IAT on some cars that are just so appealing.
Otherwise, I have seen the significant drop in IAT on some cars that are just so appealing.
I think you need to do a little reseach yourself on these new systems that are available, there are quite a few fail-safes put in place to prevent what you are talking about. The way they are connected to the DME allows for the system to revert back to a different setting/program should the water/meth stop for any reason.
#50
07-16-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm looking into this as well. Seems to really make sense for our 91 octane "gas" that we get in SoCal. According to Tony at EPL, our 91 is essentially the same as the 89 on the East Coast... Cali gas sucks a$$.
#53
09-08-2009, 09:16 PM
Scott,
Do you think pump/meth is as safety as race gas for the motor ?
For example, you told you were running 100 octane @ 1,5 bar on your 996tt safely, would my motor be just as safe as yours with pump/meth setup @ 1,5 bar? Or even above those level.
Wondered what you think
Cheers,
Do you think pump/meth is as safety as race gas for the motor ?
For example, you told you were running 100 octane @ 1,5 bar on your 996tt safely, would my motor be just as safe as yours with pump/meth setup @ 1,5 bar? Or even above those level.
Wondered what you think
Cheers,
#54
09-09-2009, 04:29 AM
IMO, race gas is better, even though I run pump with meth. WE made more power on the race with 50/50 than we did on pump with 100% meth, but at least with race gas you know you ALWAYS have good fuel. You never know what you get with pump gas, so we have to tune accordingly.
#55
09-09-2009, 06:56 AM
How was it with race gas only vs pump with 100%meth? Any chance to measure it? I am not surprised that race with 50/50 meth/water making more power than pump 100%meth, but not so sure about %100 meth/pump vs race only.
#56
09-09-2009, 08:59 AM
Registered User
I have used Water/Meth Injection on other cars. (Not yet fitted to a P Car) I did not use any specific aggressive programming or timing changes just the regular tuned files.
While this does not take advantage of the extra combustion, IMHO it DOES drastically reduce inlet temps, a good thing. I found the plugs also lasted a longer, run cleaner and the engine in general ran cleaner (Not so sooty).
Again, I only have used this for extra cooling not for extra performance.
I have been an ERL Aquamist proponent for the longest time but like the injection based on Boost as opposed to Injector duty cycles or a combination thereof. with their recent system they do not use Boost unless you get the 2s system with the Impact Pump (Old)
This way you only get water under boost when you really need it. Also if you run out of fluid there is no risk of detonation as the file was designed for no water injection.
This Snow Performance system seems worth investigating. I like the MAX system with the solenoid valve. I would not use a system without one personally. But I do not like the gauge. In theory all you need is a flow light and a level indicator. I am not a fan of extra gauges in the car.
While this does not take advantage of the extra combustion, IMHO it DOES drastically reduce inlet temps, a good thing. I found the plugs also lasted a longer, run cleaner and the engine in general ran cleaner (Not so sooty).
Again, I only have used this for extra cooling not for extra performance.
I have been an ERL Aquamist proponent for the longest time but like the injection based on Boost as opposed to Injector duty cycles or a combination thereof. with their recent system they do not use Boost unless you get the 2s system with the Impact Pump (Old)
This way you only get water under boost when you really need it. Also if you run out of fluid there is no risk of detonation as the file was designed for no water injection.
This Snow Performance system seems worth investigating. I like the MAX system with the solenoid valve. I would not use a system without one personally. But I do not like the gauge. In theory all you need is a flow light and a level indicator. I am not a fan of extra gauges in the car.
#57
09-09-2009, 03:07 PM
well considering that the difference between the two was only 20 whp, I would say that race only vs meth/pump would be equal, which confirms this threads original posting.
We started out to do an AWD vs. RWD comparison, but as it turned out, after a few pulls, we realized my front dif was, and likely has always been, toast. How did we know? We made 3 pulls back to back, removed the drive shaft and made 3 more pulls making sure to duplicate all conditions. The difference between the runs was less than 5 horsepower!!! Kind of explains why I always got stuck in 3 inches of snow last year? Anyway, I always wanted to do a race gas tune, so, we took this opportunity, as the AWD test was spoiled. Since we had removed the drive shaft, we base lined the car on pump gas and meth and RWD. Then we drained all the pump gas and the (100%) meth tank and tuned with MS109 and 50/50 meth/water. (As a side note and from experience, we felt that race gas with 100% meth would greatly impact performance such as spool, so we went with 50/50 as we can’t disable the Aquamist system unless you want to run on waste gate, and I don’t.) We learned that we cannot run pump gas on my race tune, however, my pump gas-100% meth tune is only 20whp and 20wftlbs shy of my MS109 -50/50 tune. This is the case because I cannot get over 1.3-1.35 bar. My waste gates are maxxed out and my boost solenoid duty cycle is at 100%, if not higher. Obviously, we could achieve much better power numbers on race gas with more boost, we just can’t get there, with the parts we have. We could NOT get it to pull timing on the race tune. We kept adding timing, but made no more power. (Yes, we took the timing back out) It did pull 1-2 degrees on the pump tune. We feel that by adding a couple gallons of MS109 with the pump gas would likely get us to the race gas level of power as the timing retard was likely worth the 20hp gain. As of an hour ago, my car is officially RWD for now...
#59
09-09-2009, 03:48 PM
Thanks Dennis. The reason we never tested "race only" is because there isn't a way to trick the Aquamist. The only way you can run the Aquamist system off (that I know of), is on wastegate, which is the safety. So we decided to do a 50/50 rather than just water. My system runs off inj duty cycle and has 2 safety's, float/fluid level and flow meter. If there is not enough in the tank or a line breaks or somehow lose flow, both instances...back to wastegate pressure. And they do work and work well...
#60
09-13-2009, 01:54 PM
Thanks Dennis. The reason we never tested "race only" is because there isn't a way to trick the Aquamist. The only way you can run the Aquamist system off (that I know of), is on wastegate, which is the safety. So we decided to do a 50/50 rather than just water. My system runs off inj duty cycle and has 2 safety's, float/fluid level and flow meter. If there is not enough in the tank or a line breaks or somehow lose flow, both instances...back to wastegate pressure. And they do work and work well...
No prob, Mike. I think your setup is a much better way to go than race file/fuel. I'd rather give up 20 whp and run pump/meth, than have to go search for race gas all the time