the common white smoke startup thing, but for 5-10 minutes?
#1
07-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Norcal
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the common white smoke startup thing, but for 5-10 minutes?
I did the search and found it happens to nearly everyone, but it seemed the normal experience has been 30-60 seconds or a couple minutes maybe..... but should I be concerned when it lasts 5+ minutes? Has happened twice now in past 7 days, and only since I had new Tial alpha 28 turbos installed.... not a coincidence?
thanks
thanks
#2
07-28-2009, 07:24 AM
I did the search and found it happens to nearly everyone, but it seemed the normal experience has been 30-60 seconds or a couple minutes maybe..... but should I be concerned when it lasts 5+ minutes? Has happened twice now in past 7 days, and only since I had new Tial alpha 28 turbos installed.... not a coincidence?
thanks
thanks
#3
07-28-2009, 08:18 AM
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Location: Elk Grove, CA
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I dont' believe in coincidence....always go back to the last thing you did before the anomaly started. That's where you usually find your problem. Oil level? Turbo bearings?
#4
07-28-2009, 08:38 AM
flash
having a lot of experience with Garrett turbos I can tell without hesitation that there needs to be a restrictor installed in the oil line supply to the turbos. If it is missing you will have this problem. I modify the factory ck valves and install a restrictor in them to prevent this from happening. Did you install the turbos yourself?
having a lot of experience with Garrett turbos I can tell without hesitation that there needs to be a restrictor installed in the oil line supply to the turbos. If it is missing you will have this problem. I modify the factory ck valves and install a restrictor in them to prevent this from happening. Did you install the turbos yourself?
Absolutely, positively 100% true. I used to get them from Turbonetics. If you can't find them, make sure you restrict the oil going into the turbo with a fitting with at least .060" hole in it. I might still have a couple of the fittings... pm me if you need them.
#6
07-28-2009, 01:01 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Norcal
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Thanks for the responses, guys.
Here is a little more detail over the past week. First time it happened a week ago I drove up to meet 2 of my mechanics (I have a whole crew LOL) and there was some oil leaking out at that time and they found the passenger boost hose off the turbo was loose so they slipped it back on and clamped it and called it good.
But then a week later, yesterday, I go to start up my car again and the same 5-10 minutes of billowing white smoke.... look underneath and feel around as much as I could and didnt see or anything loose and just a touch of oil leaking from a different place further toward the rear/center of the car from where it was leaking last time, and a lot less oil leaking this time. Just a big drop really and nothing visibly wet above the ground that I could see then. So drove to meet one of the guys and he looked under and didnt feel any loose hoses and there was no oil leak or even oily parts that he could see, and by this time the white smoke was completely gone.
All systems otherwise normal, oil level, drives normal, boosts the same (I didn't try any WOT of course).
Could this restrictor thing be the culprit?
Here is a little more detail over the past week. First time it happened a week ago I drove up to meet 2 of my mechanics (I have a whole crew LOL) and there was some oil leaking out at that time and they found the passenger boost hose off the turbo was loose so they slipped it back on and clamped it and called it good.
But then a week later, yesterday, I go to start up my car again and the same 5-10 minutes of billowing white smoke.... look underneath and feel around as much as I could and didnt see or anything loose and just a touch of oil leaking from a different place further toward the rear/center of the car from where it was leaking last time, and a lot less oil leaking this time. Just a big drop really and nothing visibly wet above the ground that I could see then. So drove to meet one of the guys and he looked under and didnt feel any loose hoses and there was no oil leak or even oily parts that he could see, and by this time the white smoke was completely gone.
All systems otherwise normal, oil level, drives normal, boosts the same (I didn't try any WOT of course).
Could this restrictor thing be the culprit?
#7
07-28-2009, 05:31 PM
I will concur with 04GT3RS on the oil restrictor. To my understading, if there is no restrictor, the oil pressure going into the turbo is too high and is causing leakage into the turbo inlet, ultimately going into the cylinders and buring there - hence the smoke. I am not 100% sure if I am describing this right, but either way, you want to fix this immediately to avoid damaging cats, etc.
Good luck
Good luck
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#8
07-28-2009, 06:38 PM
I have a related question. WHen you guys are getting the puff of smoke, how much is really coming out? I get a puff every 3-4 starts and sometimes it is enough to really fill the garage with THICK white smoke. I have noticed that if I keep the ar revved at about 1200 rpm on the cooldown, the puff is less frequent.
#9
07-28-2009, 07:58 PM
I have a related question. WHen you guys are getting the puff of smoke, how much is really coming out? I get a puff every 3-4 starts and sometimes it is enough to really fill the garage with THICK white smoke. I have noticed that if I keep the ar revved at about 1200 rpm on the cooldown, the puff is less frequent.
Sounds about right...
I seem to use about 1qt of oil every 1200-1500 miles...
#10
07-28-2009, 08:15 PM
Three people have told you the same thing, why would still ask if it could be the culprit.
The pressure and the volume of oil is too much for the seal to handle and while it can leak into the compressor housing most of the smoke is because it is going into the turbine. The oil that might leak into the intake would have a very hard time getting to the combustion chamber considering that it has to travel through the intercoolers and hoes and intake plenum. Very rarely would you see oil in the intake. If you took the cats off you might actually promote a small leak out of the turbine housing. On a few racecars that I work on I have seen this. Hope this helps!!!
The pressure and the volume of oil is too much for the seal to handle and while it can leak into the compressor housing most of the smoke is because it is going into the turbine. The oil that might leak into the intake would have a very hard time getting to the combustion chamber considering that it has to travel through the intercoolers and hoes and intake plenum. Very rarely would you see oil in the intake. If you took the cats off you might actually promote a small leak out of the turbine housing. On a few racecars that I work on I have seen this. Hope this helps!!!
#11
07-28-2009, 08:21 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Norcal
Posts: 2,620
Rep Power: 168 Three people have told you the same thing, why would still ask if it could be the culprit.
The pressure and the volume of oil is too much for the seal to handle and while it can leak into the compressor housing most of the smoke is because it is going into the turbine. The oil that might leak into the intake would have a very hard time getting to the combustion chamber considering that it has to travel through the intercoolers and hoes and intake plenum. Very rarely would you see oil in the intake. If you took the cats off you might actually promote a small leak out of the turbine housing. On a few racecars that I work on I have seen this. Hope this helps!!!
The pressure and the volume of oil is too much for the seal to handle and while it can leak into the compressor housing most of the smoke is because it is going into the turbine. The oil that might leak into the intake would have a very hard time getting to the combustion chamber considering that it has to travel through the intercoolers and hoes and intake plenum. Very rarely would you see oil in the intake. If you took the cats off you might actually promote a small leak out of the turbine housing. On a few racecars that I work on I have seen this. Hope this helps!!!
Dave from EPL told me today that the oil adapters up top are drilled tiny as a restrictor.
#12
07-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Pull the intake hose off the turbo, if there is oil, you probably have a turbo/bearing problem.
This is the rubber hose that connect the turbo to the black molded plastic, I've had to do this a couple times.
This is the rubber hose that connect the turbo to the black molded plastic, I've had to do this a couple times.
#13
07-29-2009, 11:31 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Norcal
Posts: 2,620
Rep Power: 168
Hmmm, I surely hope not that's the issue.... turbos have less than 1000 miles on them. thanks for the help I'll check it out.
#14
07-29-2009, 07:29 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Norcal
Posts: 2,620
Rep Power: 168 I challenge Dave from were ever he is to proof that the check valves, that is what they are called, have an orifice in the inlet or oulet that is as small as .060" or smaller. He probably does not even know that the ck valves come apart. See this is one reason why a dislike participating in any kind of forum. Most of the people that comment on here do not have the back ground, expertise or experience for that matter to even be discussing this. Well anyhow according to the next bonehead your turbos are bad. So go ahead and send them to Greg or Jake a Tial and if you can proof to them that they are bad put the next ones on and be ready to kill bugs because it will smoke if you do not restrict the oil flow to the cartridge. BTW Greg is the owner of Tial Sport whom I have had a working relation for over 15 years. Sorry if anybody thinks I am being too aggresive or a d--- but I stand my ground when I am right.
So because I don't work on my own cars (I have tried, but do not possess the skills, patience, time, tools or adequate garage) I shouldn't post on here and join discussions?
I am having the person who installed the kit dive into everything this weekend or next week, and after we have spoken to Tony @ EPL about everything since that's where we got the parts.
#15
07-29-2009, 07:38 PM
Hey Dave!
I had same experiance immediately after I installed A28s. It was worse if I parked the car on a mild slope. It totally resolved after a few months with no intervention required.
I had same experiance immediately after I installed A28s. It was worse if I parked the car on a mild slope. It totally resolved after a few months with no intervention required.