Proximate cause reffers to an event that would not have occured but for the underlying dangerous activity. It does not cover all events, but only those that are closely related to the dangerous activity. Under these theories an attempt to shoot out tires that results in the deaths of innocent bystanders could be charged to the fleeing vehicle. This is not unlike felony murder, whereby any death proximately caused by the commission of a felony, whether deliberate or not, is treated as a murder.
Hope this helps. Be careful out there.

 

bppump, are you a criminal defense attorney?

 

Thanks. I understand, but do you see my point? As you describe
it, it seems that you claim that once a pursuit starts, the law
absolves the officer a-priori of any responsibility to avoid reckless
behavior on his part while pursuing. How far does this
absolution go? Let's extend the recklessness from his exceeding
his driving and car's capabilities, to a case where he decided
to 'cut the fleeing car off at the pass' by taking a shortcut
across a school playground, and he accidentally mows down
some children? Still the fleer's crime?
I think we're circumlocuting the functional definition of
'proximate'. I would argue that any personal act that has
conscious will as a necessary component, and does not have
overt threat or duress as a component of the motivation,
cannot be considered proximate. Otherwise we're saying that
the desired end justifies any means.
thanks
Joe

 

People in this society will not take responsibility for their own actions. The cop chased after the porsche and because of his poor, reckless driving crashed into a tree and died. This is his own fault. Im sure by law the porsche guy could get life in jail, but that is ridiculous. The cop can't drive, its his own fault he is dead.

If i was the porsche guy i would not turn myself in. No way they catch him based on the description of driving a "red porsche". If he does turn himself in he is looking at serious jail time.

 

I handle many types of law and am admitted to practice in CA, DC and VA.

 

Interesting, because my father is a litigation attorney who specialized in criminal defense and was a former prosecutor here in LA. I don't think he would totally agree with your analysis...

 

Originally posted by bppump911

Proximate cause reffers to an event that would not have occured but for the underlying dangerous activity. It does not cover all events, but only those that are closely related to the dangerous activity. Under these theories an attempt to shoot out tires that results in the deaths of innocent bystanders could be charged to the fleeing vehicle. This is not unlike felony murder, whereby any death proximately caused by the commission of a felony, whether deliberate or not, is treated as a murder.
Hope this helps. Be careful out there.


It's been 8 years since I took crim law, but I believe that you need to look at the culpability of the police officer and the reasonableness of his actions. Under bppump's definition, the fact that somebody died in a roadblock set up by the police would be attributed to the fleeing suspect.

In any case, maybe I'm mixing my tort and criminal law, but doesn't foreseeability come into play? Did the Porsche driver even know he was being chased?

Let's say I'm cruising up the 5 to nor cal at 2 in the morning at 110 mph, very few cars on the road, and a parked cop hears me roar by. By the time he puts down his coffee, starts his car, and makes chase, let's say that I'm much further ahead and don't even see his lights go on. Are you really saying that if the cop gives chase, pops a tire, and dies, I'm culpable for vehicular manslaughter?

Here's my point: the law tells you to look at the actions of the offending party, any intervening party (e.g. a careless shot from a rookie cop), the victim, and any other intervening (foreseeable or not) circumstances (like a defective tire, improperly paved road, etc.).

Prayers to the family of the police officer. BTW - I too am against high speed chases.

-Bobby

 

I really don't want to engage in legal debate here, and I'm sure everyone has a father, brother, cousin or great uncle who is a lawyer; but trust me, in this case manslaughter is a very realistic charge.

 

ummm... ok. well then i take it criminal defense is not your specialty. Also, take into account that this is FL, so really, all of us are just guessing.

 

try the stunt yourself and I'll send you cookies in jail (no matter which state because this is black letter common law that is independent of state statutory law; except of course in those states that have codified the common law principles).
good luck

 

First off..that's really funny! Does anyone have an update to this story??? DId he turn himself in, or are they looking hard for this man??? I would not turn myself in! While my prayers and regards go out to the Police's family, it was his choice to chase him and with all choices come responsibility and consequences. And you can't go placing your consequences for your choice upon someone else when they really had no control over what you did!..IMHO

 

yes it is


I think we had this discussion w/ that video of the 18 year old girl the cops decided to do a pit maneuver w/ on the freeway while she was doing 100. She is the one responsible, not the officer.



This driver will probably recieve an involuntary manslaughter



btw, here is the definanition of it, seems to fit the crime pretty well:

" In order for a person to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter the government must prove that someone was killed as a result of an act by the person;

Second, in the circumstances existing at the time, the person's act either was by its nature dangerous to human life or was done with reckless disregard for human life; and

Third, the person either knew that such conduct was a threat to the lives of others or knew of circumstances that would reasonably cause the person to foresee that such conduct might be a threat to the lives of others.
"

 

even the best drivers crash. We don't know the situation, we don't know the details. It's unfair for you to say it's cause the cop was a bad driver, etc.

 

I was talking to my old criminal justice teacher yesterday, and he said he wouldn't be suprised if they applied the Felony Murder Rule to this instance.


just something else to think about. If they can show that the guy knew he was being persued he may be screwed