I'm just telling you "Dock" waht I saw and what I experienced. If the B&M works for you- great.

 

I don't doubt at all what you saw/experienced, it's just that there is another mechanical explanation besides "it's because of the B&M."

I also find it amusing what Porsche has to say about aftermarket shifters. They are trying to say a B&M shifter with a 37% throw reduction is different than a Porsche short shifter with a 37% throw reduction. It's like saying 37 degree water is different than 37 degree water.

 

I think the memo is written almost as if he isn't aware that Posche has a short throw shifter, too.
One can turn Dock's comment around . If you move the lever AS FAST AS YOU CAN between gears , the shorter lever action of any " short " shifter whether on tower ( B&M/Porsche ) style or under car ( B&M/TechArt/RUF) style may mistime the synchros as originally designed with the original shifter arm geometry . I recall Porsche Motorsport saying they don't shorten more than 30-35% on their 996 6 speed racers because of synchro wear issues ( where most shifts are banged as fast as possible ) .

 

Porsche should know what the minimum safe time is between shifts (for the synchros); if they don't know, then they should find out.

The simple thing to do then is to publish (in the owner's manual) what this minimum time is and advise owners not to shift quicker than that regardless of the shifter installed.

 

Try this,

Doesn't a shorter shifter require more force. The greater force can damage syncros, especially if it is done too fast, since the force is magnified?.

There are many opinions out there, but just becasue the short shift feels different it doesn't mean it's better, or friendly to the gearbox.

It would be interesting to hear what guys like Bruce Anderson think about it.

Fool's gold has been sold many times, over and over again. The B&M is a dubious improvement, but a great talking point, and I wonder what the personal experiences are from all who proclaim it's greatness.

How many stick shift cars have they owned, what type, how long, Can they double clutch, heel and toe, feather the clutch etc.? How long do their clutches last. What is their favorite standard gearbox and why?.

Get the idea? This is a very subjective area and you need to understand the source of the opinion, even if the "giver" has succumbed to the B&M hype... or been convinced by their friend that it is a must have (conventional wisdom is often wrong).

I'm not a fan, and the more weak arguments I see justifying it, the less I'm impressed

 

The increased force, although not really very much, has nothing to do with the actual gear change process in the transmission.

If it feels better to a driver, it is better.

Just like the Porsche short ****er is a dubious improvement? The major benefit of both the B&M and Porsche short shifter is in shifting feel. Not a bad thing.

 

It has never been about one being better than the stock. It is about feel and what you like when you shift. It is not even about shorter shift times. The same pause between gears should be followed and should be smooth not jammed and should be RPM matched with heel toe shifting. I'll bet most people who get the short shifter want to "shift faster" and therefore "go faster." That was never the intent of a SSK. As for the increase in effort to shift, that should only be the case to get the shift started, not to place the shifter into the next gear. Grinding and missed shifts are never a good plan for wear on synchros or gears. If they happen to you with a SSK and not with stock, don't use SSK. I find it curious that some of us have had NO problems with SSK and we like them, and others of us aren't happy. But then isn't that what personal preference is all about. As for warranty issues, shift well all of the time and match RPM and don't jam the gears and your tranny will love you no matter what is between your hand and the gears.

The most interesting part of the memo is that it is an indictment of the driver and shift technique as much as it MAY be about any SSK.

 

Dock says

"The increased force, although not really very much"

How much is not very much and are the syncros capable of absorbing it, probably not..that's why they go to steel in the GT2/3.

Your statements highlight your grasp of this whole concept and speak volumes!

 

Do you understand the mechanics of the shifting process?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dock (Atlanta)
[B]The increased force, although not really very much, has nothing to do with the actual gear change process in the transmission.



Read the entire quote. Dock understands that because the lever arm is shortened you must apply an increased force to the lever to obtain the SAME amount of force at the transmission end. As long as you are not rushing and forcing the shift (something that you can do with the stock shifter as well) you will not be changing what's happening in the transmission. Dock's posts do speak volumes and you would do well to pay attention.

 

Amen to that.

 

I actually find I can force-shift faster with the stock-shifter because it's lighter than the ssk. The ssk requires more force to get into motion. The stock-shifter has more leverage it seems. I think one can damage the tranny with either shifter if one has bad driving habits like slam-bam-shifting, not rev matching, skipping gears, etc.

I don't shift any faster with the ssk. I let it pause the same at the neutral gate. I just like the snuggly feel of it.

 

It seems like we all have differences of opinion... and that's a good thing. I'm going to push further and try to get that B&M memo from porsche.... I saw it. I had no complaints about the b&M- and i've put on about 20k miles on it. It only gave me problems at the 1/4 track going from a stand still (1st gear) to 2nd. I switched into 2nd gear @ 6k rpms and thats when it either grinded the sync rolls or it just hung "in the gate" and nothing was there. THATS ALL. no other complaints. I thought it was the tranny so we changed it... it still did it. I went to the track once with the new porsche short shifter and so far had no problems.http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/293017

 

Just an aside, the dragstrip is not a very good setting for the P-car. That transmission will never stand up to repeated powershifting, high rpm launching ,etc that one encounters at the dragstrip. It's simply not made for it.
If you really want to get a sense of what you car is capable of/and made for, take it to a road track with your local Porsche club during a DE event. These are very safe for you and your car, plus you will benifit from the input of an instructor in the cabin with you.
This is a topic(drag racing) that I (and my former partner in crime 'dj996') have significant experience in at the national level. But that's neither here nor there.You are only going to tear up yo your car on a 1/4 mile strip. There are better avenues to track your car. If you can't resist the urge of the 1/4 mile, then get an old chevy and modify it, at least if you tear that up it won't cost as much.
I would also be concerned that your Porsche dealer knows that you are routinely taking your car to the strip and 'abusing' it, that might make it's way onto your service record/memo as well, causing warranty issues.
I think the greater issue here goes back to Porsche trying to avoid warranty claims by blaming the BM shifter, which is bs. But ,that bs might cause one to ponder removal of his bm unit and replacing it with a identicle Porsche friendly unit. All to avoid large bills in the future

 

I use the undercar B&M . It does what I wanted : shorten the fore-aft throw , but still feels smooth as the stock unit . I still shift at modest speed- I didn't get it for dragstrip banging . It feels in proportion to the unfortunately overboosted Honda-like OEM clutch pedal . The feel/throw weight is similar to the 997 shifter but more " click " in action and less " springy" . If I had a GT2 or GT3 with their much stiffer clutches , then stiffer throw weight would be appropriate , like they have stock. It's all about the perceived " oneness" that separates a well engineered sportscar from others. I.e, stiff clutch/stiff gas pedal/stiff shifter/high steering effort are OK , but mushy clutch/soft gas pedal/light steering WITH stiff gear shift is not , for me.
I also like it for what it doesn't do vs the in car B&M unit : it maintains the stock separation laterally . I don't want to end up in 2nd when I'm rapidly shifting from 5th to 4th at high speed.
It leaves no tell tale when removed before service either.