Originally Posted by joetwint

just trying to make a point.

Originally Posted by Evolution MotorSports

FWIW,

Installation procedure is CRITICAL and I agree with some of what has been stated. This is not our first rodeo with building high powered Porsche engines. We have built over 150 996TT engines throughout the years and we have learned many things along the way. There is no Porsche manual that tells you how to do some of this. Let’s face it, we are pushing these engines well beyond what some components had ever been intended to withstand. Neil at PD has been doing this a long time and I respect what he does. Also, he did not wake up one day and have all of the answers either. This is a learning process and figuring out better ways of doing things and developing new products to improve upon the entire process is how we are ALL able to continue to push the envelope.

Every engine we build gets assembled using tested procedures from Porsche as well as ones that we have developed. Regarding the head stud installation, this is an area where I agree 100%. Here is a quote from our product release:

"Besides creating a stronger head stud, we incorporated features to make them easier to install and developed an installation procedure to help ensure proper head sealing. Our multi step torque process was developed to minimize installation torque variables and yield the most accurate clamp pressures."

Installation errors can be reduced with an assembly procedure that minimizes error. There are a lot of variables when torque is applied to head studs that were mentioned. I agree that many failures can be attributed to installation, however we have seen some that point to other reasons, thus our desire to create a better head stud that addressed some of the concerns we had with others.

All in all, I believe that we are on the same page with a lot of the different opinions that were stated. I also believe that there are many ways to fix the same problem. Here are a few examples of problems – problems solved:

Example 1: Porsche race engines that made tremendous power lived under tremendous boost. Solution: Weld the heads to prevent lifting.

Example 2: Big powered air cooled 993 turbo engines. Solution: Nirosist ring (flame ring) the heads and cylinders to help prevent the side of the head blowing out when the heads lift.

Example 3: 996TT engine making tremendous power with stock head gaskets and head studs. Solution: increase head sealing pressures and combustion containment with additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Example 4: 996TT engine making well over 1100 HP and 30 PSI of boost. Solution: 12mm head studs with more clamping pressure and a stronger head gasket without additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Originally Posted by Evolution MotorSports

FWIW,

Installation procedure is CRITICAL and I agree with some of what has been stated. This is not our first rodeo with building high powered Porsche engines. We have built over 150 996TT engines throughout the years and we have learned many things along the way. There is no Porsche manual that tells you how to do some of this. Let’s face it, we are pushing these engines well beyond what some components had ever been intended to withstand. Neil at PD has been doing this a long time and I respect what he does. Also, he did not wake up one day and have all of the answers either. This is a learning process and figuring out better ways of doing things and developing new products to improve upon the entire process is how we are ALL able to continue to push the envelope.

Every engine we build gets assembled using tested procedures from Porsche as well as ones that we have developed. Regarding the head stud installation, this is an area where I agree 100%. Here is a quote from our product release:

"Besides creating a stronger head stud, we incorporated features to make them easier to install and developed an installation procedure to help ensure proper head sealing. Our multi step torque process was developed to minimize installation torque variables and yield the most accurate clamp pressures."

Installation errors can be reduced with an assembly procedure that minimizes error. There are a lot of variables when torque is applied to head studs that were mentioned. I agree that many failures can be attributed to installation, however we have seen some that point to other reasons, thus our desire to create a better head stud that addressed some of the concerns we had with others.


Example 1: Porsche race engines that made tremendous power lived under tremendous boost. Solution: Weld the heads to prevent lifting.

Example 2: Big powered air cooled 993 turbo engines. Solution: Nirosist ring (flame ring) the heads and cylinders to help prevent the side of the head blowing out when the heads lift.

Example 3: 996TT engine making tremendous power with stock head gaskets and head studs. Solution: increase head sealing pressures and combustion containment with additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Example 4: 996TT engine making well over 1100 HP and 30 PSI of boost. Solution: 12mm head studs with more clamping pressure and a stronger head gasket without additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Originally Posted by PALETTE

WOW i cant believe all the bashing that goes on here! Guys what the heck! EVOM puts out a good product, Sharky is promoting it and its up to us the end user if we want to buy it, try it and use it. I understand fulling that as soon as you mod a car it stands a chance of breaking at any point. Hell i built a Blower mustang 6 years back and the motor had to come out after the car broke a steel crank in the burn out box! STUFF happens!!

Congrats to Evoms! great product Development!! Glad to see that the 996 is not being toss to the side and development has stopped.

Alex Again. Great thread you started! Cheers!!

Originally Posted by sharkster

Cheers for the support PALETTE... Sad to see it to but yes there's a lot of politics and behind the scenes passive-aggressive stuff going on but the fact does remain that whether it's an EVOMS, Protomotive, SharkWerks etc... built engine more often than not in the past ARP head studs were recommended and/or used during the build and issues have been found with the consistency of the metallurgy of the ARP's... Luckily EVOMS has got this solution which they've proven to work in cars with 700-1000hp

Originally Posted by evolution motorsports

fwiw,

installation procedure is critical and i agree with some of what has been stated. This is not our first rodeo with building high powered porsche engines. We have built over 150 996tt engines throughout the years and we have learned many things along the way. There is no porsche manual that tells you how to do some of this. Let’s face it, we are pushing these engines well beyond what some components had ever been intended to withstand. Neil at pd has been doing this a long time and i respect what he does. Also, he did not wake up one day and have all of the answers either. This is a learning process and figuring out better ways of doing things and developing new products to improve upon the entire process is how we are all able to continue to push the envelope.

every engine we build gets assembled using tested procedures from porsche as well as ones that we have developed. Regarding the head stud installation, this is an area where i agree 100%. Here is a quote from our product release:

"besides creating a stronger head stud, we incorporated features to make them easier to install and developed an installation procedure to help ensure proper head sealing. our multi step torque process was developed to minimize installation torque variables and yield the most accurate clamp pressures."

installation errors can be reduced with an assembly procedure that minimizes error. There are a lot of variables when torque is applied to head studs that were mentioned. I agree that many failures can be attributed to installation, however we have seen some that point to other reasons, thus our desire to create a better head stud that addressed some of the concerns we had with others.

all in all, i believe that we are on the same page with a lot of the different opinions that were stated. I also believe that there are many ways to fix the same problem. Here are a few examples of problems – problems solved:

example 1: Porsche race engines that made tremendous power lived under tremendous boost. Solution: Weld the heads to prevent lifting.

xxxxxxx

example 2: Big powered air cooled 993 turbo engines. Solution: nirosist ring (flame ring) the heads and cylinders to help prevent the side of the head blowing out when the heads lift.

example 3: 996tt engine making tremendous power with stock head gaskets and head studs. Solution: Increase head sealing pressures and combustion containment with additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

example 4: 996tt engine making well over 1100 hp and 30 psi of boost. Solution: 12mm head studs with more clamping pressure and a stronger head gasket without additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Originally Posted by m42racer

If I came across arrogant it was not my intention. If you took it this way, then all I can say is sorry.

I have absolutely nothing against the EVOMS Head stud. They look like they are made by A1 and this company make some great fasteners. My beef is and has always been how the ARP stud has taken it in the shorts when the problem is and has never been with the stud.

Originally Posted by cjv;254027






[img

https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/cjv996tt/IMG_5074.jpg[/img]

All in all, I believe that we are on the same page with a lot of the different opinions that were stated. I also believe that there are many ways to fix the same problem. Here are a few examples of problems – problems solved:

Example 1: Porsche race engines that made tremendous power lived under tremendous boost. Solution: Weld the heads to prevent lifting.

Example 2: Big powered air cooled 993 turbo engines. Solution: Nirosist ring (flame ring) the heads and cylinders to help prevent the side of the head blowing out when the heads lift.

Example 3: 996TT engine making tremendous power with stock head gaskets and head studs. Solution: increase head sealing pressures and combustion containment with additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Example 4: 996TT engine making well over 1100 HP and 30 PSI of boost. Solution: 12mm head studs with more clamping pressure and a stronger head gasket without additional copper or steel o-rings in the head

Originally Posted by Evolution MotorSports

Or you could do this . Thank you Chad. I knew I could count on you to combine a majority of these technologies Nirosist ringing has been around since the 70's on the boosted Porsche race engines. Since their were no head gaskets, the air cooled heads had a weak spot around the combustion chambers. If the heads lifted, the cumbustion energy could blow out the sides of the heads if they did not have this "flame ring" installed. Typically they were a 1.5mm thick stainless steel ring that were ~ 3mm tall. There was a receiving groove cut into the heads around each combustion chamber that was ~ 1.5mm wide by 1.5mm deep. This same ~ 1.5mm wide by 1.5mm deep groove was also cut into the top of each cylinder. This created a wall around the each combustion chamber that allowed some head movement without causing leakage.

.

Originally Posted by Evolution MotorSports

Or you could do this . Thank you Chad. I knew I could count on you to combine a majority of these technologies Nirosist ringing has been around since the 70's on the boosted Porsche race engines. Since their were no head gaskets, the air cooled heads had a weak spot around the combustion chambers. If the heads lifted, the cumbustion energy could blow out the sides of the heads if they did not have this "flame ring" installed. Typically they were a 1.5mm thick stainless steel ring that were ~ 3mm tall. There was a receiving groove cut into the heads around each combustion chamber that was ~ 1.5mm wide by 1.5mm deep. This same ~ 1.5mm wide by 1.5mm deep groove was also cut into the top of each cylinder. This created a wall around the each combustion chamber that allowed some head movement without causing leakage.

As Chad has shown, a version of this can be accomplished on a water cooled 996TT engine and can be very affective to contain cylinder pressures. There are many different methods of head sealing that can all have the same end result. There are also methods of increasing clamp force on the heads to create a better seal. This can be done by dispersing the clamp force across a wider area around each stud as well as increasing the strength of the case. There also comes a point that the force of the head clamping can have an adverse affect on the entire case and start to distort the main journals. Lets face it, if the block were steel and built like a supra, alot of these problems would not be an issue.

Originally Posted by Evolution MotorSports

Or you could do this . Thank you Chad. I knew I could count on you to combine a majority of these technologies Nirosist ringing has been around since the 70's on the boosted Porsche race engines. Since their were no head gaskets, the air cooled heads had a weak spot around the combustion chambers. If the heads lifted, the cumbustion energy could blow out the sides of the heads if they did not have this "flame ring" installed. Typically they were a 1.5mm thick stainless steel ring that were ~ 3mm tall. There was a receiving groove cut into the heads around each combustion chamber that was ~ 1.5mm wide by 1.5mm deep. This same ~ 1.5mm wide by 1.5mm deep groove was also cut into the top of each cylinder. This created a wall around the each combustion chamber that allowed some head movement without causing leakage.

As Chad has shown, a version of this can be accomplished on a water cooled 996TT engine and can be very affective to contain cylinder pressures. There are many different methods of head sealing that can all have the same end result. There are also methods of increasing clamp force on the heads to create a better seal. This can be done by dispersing the clamp force across a wider area around each stud as well as increasing the strength of the case. There also comes a point that the force of the head clamping can have an adverse affect on the entire case and start to distort the main journals. Lets face it, if the block were steel and built like a supra, alot of these problems would not be an issue.