I had 4 total exhaust systems over the years on my car and I recently did my own custom exhaust. I bought some 3" Coast Fab mufflers (Burns re-labeled) and had a local shop make it for me. They did the X design and it was half the cost of what others pay for the same thing. Just find yourself a very good fabricator that can TIG well and save yourself some $.

 

Very curious as to what you will have with a $3-400 budget

 

I guess what the OP or legendr34 is getting after is that these exhausts for the 996TT don't have to cost as much as they do. I don't think that anyone can really disagree with this. Just because the car is quite expensive to begin with, the exhaust manufacturers feel they can get away with the increased prices of their systems because most people don't bother to question it... they just shell it out.

For example: a JIC full turbo back titanium exhaust for an Mitsu EVO (which uses a hell of a lot more piping/material than a 996 TT exhaust) costs $2100. Likewise an Amuse Powerhouse titanium exhaust for a 350Z costs $2400. Both are very high quality exhaust systems tuned for maximum performance and weight savings, both require substantially more material to make, and both are made from a much more expensive material, yet they cost less than an in-expensive (by comparison), stainless steel 996TT exhaust.

Anyone care to explain why this is the case, because it pretty much defies logic.

 

This is exactly why we have developed the best value packages. Who wants to spend 5K on an exhaust for a car that you can buy for 40K, if not cheaper..

Click the pic for more information:

 

cats cats cats... Most of the cost wrapped up in an exhaust is the high quality cats 996tt owners MUST USE. You can get by with cheaper ones (cats) for maybe even a year but high-volume Exhaust companies can't afford to be replacing tons of systems because they are causing Check Engine Lights, and therefore they are FORCED to use the highest quality cats available by us, the consumers. You can build your own system re-using the stock cats but you won't have the performance gains, and you can buy cheap cats off eBay and get that performance but you'll have a C.E.L. in a matter of months... To build a high-quality exhaust you can simply bolt on, reduce back-pressure and make good power with while engineering OUT the drone and creating the desired engine note all while making sure the welds are thick and won't crack the first few heat cycles AND using high-quality cats is a tall order. Has it been done at Al's muffler shop for under a grand?... maybe, but Exhaust Manufacturers that put a warranty on their systems really just can't afford to accomplish all of this much cheaper than what you see on the market today and charge any less to make it worth doing.

Your C4S system didn't require the Cats and same level of engineering to keep your turbos spooling happily. In an N/A application you are just trying to free air-flow... the only trick there is reducing drone, in a Turbo system you have to actually KEEP some of the back-pressure, use high-flow cats, etc etc... There's simply more to it. Couple that with the fact that they ARE in the buisness to make money and demand will always dictate pricing and you're left with complete 996tt systems costing between 2 and 4k on average. (some more, some less)

 

iJeremy, you make an interesting point about the cats. But am I supposed to really believe that $950 for just catalytic converters from these exhaust companies is a reasonable price? Or that cats and 2, 5" muffler bypass pipes are worth $2000? 2, 5" pieces of stainless steel go for around $1000 now, and you're ok with justifying that??

I cannot find any 100 cell metal substrate cats that are over the price of around $250 to $350, so it makes me wonder where these exhaust companies are finding these magical don't throw CEL only on Porsche cats and where the additional $2-400 mark up is at. And there is NO valid reason for muffler bypass pipes to cost $1000... that is a joke and you know it.

 

I have one of these and it is superb. No issues. GT3 sound (which I LOVE). It is on some 900 hp cars on this board.....


I fully agree with iJeremy's post above. Doing mods with the stock cats is a PITA...don't ask. These platinum based cats cost a lot. I run 200 cell units and for my needs, my car is very fast.




Jeff

 

I can't remember a time ever getting such a hostile reply for simply offereing a counter point... The OP was comparing his C4S exhaust to his new 996tt Exhaust, I offered up a few explinations why exhaust manufacturers CAN charge more... and subsequently do. I don't enjoy spending money more than anyone else, but the market allows for it... For some like yourself its a tough pill to swallow, no amount of complaining will change it though until people up and stop buying them at that price (speaking of cat bypass pipes) - There are COUNTLESS threads on the forum of why [X] part for [Y] car costs so much... Some of it is materials, some of it is supply vs. demand... They (the exhaust manufacturers) are in the business of making money, HJS cats, R&D, materials, etc etc etc... it all adds up and the market dictates the price. If you want to turn the thread into a 'why do my cat bypass pipes cost so much' thread it can join the other 15 just like it...

Let it be clear that I'm not disagreeing with you, just speaking the truths you don't want to hear. We the consumers can complain until our heads fall off but the market allows pricing in the 2 to 4k range for complete 996tt exhaust. Some manufacturers engineer in features like valves to change the volume, quick release clamps, different tones, etc - which allow them to charge more because they are more desirable by a larger demographic and consumers will glady pay to avoid saving money by having a muffler shop try to build them something and possibly have it fail in a month down the road - others like yourself want to go through the process of building your own system. There's pros and cons to both sides. I'm on the side of the fence that I'll gladly pay for the R&D that certain exhaust manufactures have already done because I've seen countless home-bodged exhausts come in for repair - I've even built my own exhaust for a couple different vehicles. We all have opinions, your opinion that exhausts that are currently on the market are too expensive has clearly been noted.

 

This is a nice setup, and great that they include the DV's... So many times guys will flash their car, add an exhaust and call it good - the Rubber Diaphrams in the Bosch units will only last so long... It's little stuff like this that makes a package deal good value. Nice stuff Neil.

 

Well put... btw, I definitely didn't mean to come off as hostile. It just amazes me what some of these exhausts cost. Are they well designed and built; absolutely. Does that make it any easier to swallow, not really... haha. I was merely trying to point out some of the craziness involved and how the pricing doesn't really match up in a materials used vs. price charged sort of way. No hard feelings man!

On a side note, the package deal by Switzer looks outstanding. Great looking stuff and well priced to boot.

 

No worries, its easy for us to take shots at what these parts cost and I know it's usually just blowing off steam - but having been in the industry awhile and seeing both sides I know manufacturers have a lot more cost tied up in these systems then we usually give them credit for. Just out of curiosity I tried to dig up an HJS Cat price sheet and heres what I found for those who are interested... I'm not sure what common application is in the top of the line Porsche systems but they appear to be as much as 740 euros a piece for cats alone. http://www.rover-v8.com/jeales/web.n...js_pricing.pdf Also keep in mind that German cars in general are much more picky when it comes to what our 02 sensors will and won't let pass without a check engine light. Italian cars for example are MUCH MUCH more tolerant and can get away with running catless with a simple 02 bung extender. Again, there ARE other options... I know this as well as anyone else but we as demanding consumers dictate the fact that they HAVE to use the highest quality materials they can find. This is evident by every single post on this and countless other forums of customers going ballistic when their new exhaust caused a C.E.L. Manufacturers have to try and limit those occurances as they don't like refunding shipping, sending out new systems, etc... so they have to try and find what works best... just a little insight that I'm sure isn't news to most of you, but might be worth considering.

 

Okay, THAT is a work of art and looks damned nice! Does it drone? How loud is it? I have had a small(ish) Burns muffler on another car and it was a tad loud. You've got two - I'd love to know how it worked out!

 

I agree catalytics are large part of the expense but it doesn't justify some of the prices out there by a long shot. I'd also be very interested in an explanation as to why you feel a turbo exhaust system somehow needs to "KEEP some of the back-pressure" as that goes against everything I've learned about turbo exhaust systems.

I have no issue with a vendor making a fair profit, but lets not get too crazy. Folks talk about system design and yet most all of the aftermarket systems drone - what design? This isn't supposed to be a 5.0 Mustang with 2chamber Flows..

Mikelly, how many systems have you been through? 5 now? Working on #6? I refuse to be someone's guinea pig at a couple K a pop...

 

That is some really nice work, except the muffler tips doesn't really look aligned. Maybe it's just a bad angle, but they seem to be sitting a little low.

 

+1

For turbo application, it's best to have no restriction because that restriction is working against the exhaust turbine.

For NA application, you want a properly designed exhaust diameter to maximize on exhaust velocity while minimizing backpressure.

///Michael