Is there a difference between Mahle and OEM oil filter
#1
10-12-2009, 04:46 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 33 
Is there a difference between Mahle and OEM oil filter
Hi All,
I just wanted to hear from the list, if there is any differences on these cartridges? The price is almost double, and I know Mahle is/was one of the OEM suppliers, so what gives?
I just wanted to hear from the list, if there is any differences on these cartridges? The price is almost double, and I know Mahle is/was one of the OEM suppliers, so what gives?
#3
10-12-2009, 04:59 PM
Not sure if anyone has tested / compared them.
But, you have to ask yourself. How much is your car. $$$
How how much do you save on the filter..? $$$
It's all relative.
Not to say, go waste money. But, it's an oil filter. Kindeys to your car. If it craps out........
.
But, you have to ask yourself. How much is your car. $$$
How how much do you save on the filter..? $$$
It's all relative.
Not to say, go waste money. But, it's an oil filter. Kindeys to your car. If it craps out........
.
#4
10-12-2009, 05:07 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 33 Not sure if anyone has tested / compared them.
But, you have to ask yourself. How much is your car. $$$
How how much do you save on the filter..? $$$
It's all relative.
Not to say, go waste money. But, it's an oil filter. Kindeys to your car. If it craps out........
.
But, you have to ask yourself. How much is your car. $$$
How how much do you save on the filter..? $$$
It's all relative.
Not to say, go waste money. But, it's an oil filter. Kindeys to your car. If it craps out........
.
I view this more of an engineering issue than actuarial issue where one hedges against a risk factor. Mahle has provided German automakers such as BMW and even Porsche with their filters, note that Porsche is not in the business of fluid dynamics research, nor do they care to be.
The issue is why one must pay double the price for essentially the same paper material (based on my simple tests so far).
This is like saying for best possible service always go to your dealer, because going elsewhere would be taking a big chance.
#5
10-12-2009, 05:11 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 33 Have you noticed any obvious tearing or otherwise opening in the paper material. How often do you change oil? can you please inspect the film next time you are about to discard it, just cut it with a blade and hold it to light (I know I am asking for too much).
So far I have tested when new both elements seem to shear at the about the same strength. The only important question is do they age the same, beside their flow rate per cm^2.
-Arman
#6
10-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Registered User
Zero evidence of any degredation of the Mahle filters at all.
Now, here's what Mahle claims:
"New fully synthetic oil filter media
To meet the increased chemical and thermal requirements on the oil filter in modern high-performance gasoline engines, MAHLE has developed new fully synthetic filter elements.
In addition to ever more intense competition and increased environmental awareness calling for new concepts aimed at reducing costs and saving resources, new lubricants and fuels have been developed in response to new combustion processes and the need to reduce fuel consumption. The use of new fully synthetic high-performance oils enables service intervals of up to 50,000 km to be achieved. Owing to the new underlying conditions, conventional filter base materials are becoming less and less suitable, as the excessively high nitration of the oils leads to an embrittlement of the filtration medium. A new fully synthetic fleece made from polyester has therefore been developed. The twin-layer medium consists of a support and filtration layer so as to achieve the highest filtration performance, prevent fold block formation, and attain optimum stability. The new oil filter medium is seven times more resistant to ageing than pure cellulose fibers and, at the same time, provides increased dirt absorption capacity with the same or even lower pressure losses.
To manufacture these high-performance filter elements, MAHLE has developed a new production and machining process. During the extensive testing and verification processes, it became clear that an external support for the paper block was necessary on account of the diagonal flow of untreated oil and so as to prevent fold block formation. An innovative solution was realized here as well. The new filter medium was tested in several new gasoline engines and has been successfully advanced to series production in the meantime."
I have no issues buying OEM Porsche filters. However, when they flow the same, or less than another manufacturer, I tend to want to go with the less expensive, better filter... Is Mahle better? I don't know. In two years using them, I've been very happy with them. In two years using them and monitoring (testing oil) samples, I'm convinced these filters are very "OK" as an alternative to the OEM filter.
Mike
Now, here's what Mahle claims:
"New fully synthetic oil filter media
To meet the increased chemical and thermal requirements on the oil filter in modern high-performance gasoline engines, MAHLE has developed new fully synthetic filter elements.
In addition to ever more intense competition and increased environmental awareness calling for new concepts aimed at reducing costs and saving resources, new lubricants and fuels have been developed in response to new combustion processes and the need to reduce fuel consumption. The use of new fully synthetic high-performance oils enables service intervals of up to 50,000 km to be achieved. Owing to the new underlying conditions, conventional filter base materials are becoming less and less suitable, as the excessively high nitration of the oils leads to an embrittlement of the filtration medium. A new fully synthetic fleece made from polyester has therefore been developed. The twin-layer medium consists of a support and filtration layer so as to achieve the highest filtration performance, prevent fold block formation, and attain optimum stability. The new oil filter medium is seven times more resistant to ageing than pure cellulose fibers and, at the same time, provides increased dirt absorption capacity with the same or even lower pressure losses.
To manufacture these high-performance filter elements, MAHLE has developed a new production and machining process. During the extensive testing and verification processes, it became clear that an external support for the paper block was necessary on account of the diagonal flow of untreated oil and so as to prevent fold block formation. An innovative solution was realized here as well. The new filter medium was tested in several new gasoline engines and has been successfully advanced to series production in the meantime."
I have no issues buying OEM Porsche filters. However, when they flow the same, or less than another manufacturer, I tend to want to go with the less expensive, better filter... Is Mahle better? I don't know. In two years using them, I've been very happy with them. In two years using them and monitoring (testing oil) samples, I'm convinced these filters are very "OK" as an alternative to the OEM filter.
Mike
#7
10-12-2009, 07:55 PM
Pet peeve:
Mahle is "OEM" (ie Mahle made the filters for porsche, but now as the Original Eqpt MANUFACTURER they offer a part that is OEM)
"OE" is Porsche...
It is just amazing that OEM can mean virtually anything- original part, an MFG that made the original part, or even aftermarket that was made by a manufacturer that once made an OE part and claims they are now an "OEM" for everything they make....
The mixed use and interpretation of "OEM" has rendered it useless....
IMHO
A
Mahle is "OEM" (ie Mahle made the filters for porsche, but now as the Original Eqpt MANUFACTURER they offer a part that is OEM)
"OE" is Porsche...
It is just amazing that OEM can mean virtually anything- original part, an MFG that made the original part, or even aftermarket that was made by a manufacturer that once made an OE part and claims they are now an "OEM" for everything they make....
The mixed use and interpretation of "OEM" has rendered it useless....
IMHO
A
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#8
10-12-2009, 09:33 PM
I've been using Mahle for every oil change I've done. I haven't noticed any difference between doing it at the Dealer and doing it at home other than price involved.
#9
10-12-2009, 09:33 PM
I want provide another view,
I view this more of an engineering issue than actuarial issue where one hedges against a risk factor. Mahle has provided German automakers such as BMW and even Porsche with their filters, note that Porsche is not in the business of fluid dynamics research, nor do they care to be.
The issue is why one must pay double the price for essentially the same paper material (based on my simple tests so far).
This is like saying for best possible service always go to your dealer, because going elsewhere would be taking a big chance.
I view this more of an engineering issue than actuarial issue where one hedges against a risk factor. Mahle has provided German automakers such as BMW and even Porsche with their filters, note that Porsche is not in the business of fluid dynamics research, nor do they care to be.
The issue is why one must pay double the price for essentially the same paper material (based on my simple tests so far).
This is like saying for best possible service always go to your dealer, because going elsewhere would be taking a big chance.
without, I am not saying, Dont use them.
But, on the other hand if there is no "INDEPENDENT" testing showing they are on par with OEM, then it's not worth the $13 savings to chance my $50,000 motor.
And if they do make the filters FOR Porsche, which is very possible, that doesn't mean it's the exact same specs.
Porsche may require more stringent spec. They may not.
Until independent test show something, we are all in the dark.
At the end of the day, it comes down to your personal preference.
.
#10
10-13-2009, 09:27 AM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 33
To end my suspicions as who is the OEM supplier to Porsche, I contacted MAHLE Clevite Inc and asked some very specific questions regarding a number of parameters which would be of interest. The following response from their engineers basically said stop comparing THEY ARE THE SAME.
Here is his response
"OX128/1D ECO is the Ecco filter for your car. It is the same filter we sell in Germany for your model and is equivalent to the filter we make for Porsche OEM. We do not publish any specifications. ECO means the filter contains no metal and can be incinerated.Thank you for choosing MAHLE Filters."
So I guess the old saying is true, "Ask and you shall receive"
Here is his response
"OX128/1D ECO is the Ecco filter for your car. It is the same filter we sell in Germany for your model and is equivalent to the filter we make for Porsche OEM. We do not publish any specifications. ECO means the filter contains no metal and can be incinerated.Thank you for choosing MAHLE Filters."
So I guess the old saying is true, "Ask and you shall receive"
#11
10-13-2009, 09:36 AM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 33 Zero evidence of any degredation of the Mahle filters at all.
Now, here's what Mahle claims:
"New fully synthetic oil filter media
To meet the increased chemical and thermal requirements on the oil filter in modern high-performance gasoline engines, MAHLE has developed new fully synthetic filter elements.
In addition to ever more intense competition and increased environmental awareness calling for new concepts aimed at reducing costs and saving resources, new lubricants and fuels have been developed in response to new combustion processes and the need to reduce fuel consumption. The use of new fully synthetic high-performance oils enables service intervals of up to 50,000 km to be achieved. Owing to the new underlying conditions, conventional filter base materials are becoming less and less suitable, as the excessively high nitration of the oils leads to an embrittlement of the filtration medium. A new fully synthetic fleece made from polyester has therefore been developed. The twin-layer medium consists of a support and filtration layer so as to achieve the highest filtration performance, prevent fold block formation, and attain optimum stability. The new oil filter medium is seven times more resistant to ageing than pure cellulose fibers and, at the same time, provides increased dirt absorption capacity with the same or even lower pressure losses.
To manufacture these high-performance filter elements, MAHLE has developed a new production and machining process. During the extensive testing and verification processes, it became clear that an external support for the paper block was necessary on account of the diagonal flow of untreated oil and so as to prevent fold block formation. An innovative solution was realized here as well. The new filter medium was tested in several new gasoline engines and has been successfully advanced to series production in the meantime."
I have no issues buying OEM Porsche filters. However, when they flow the same, or less than another manufacturer, I tend to want to go with the less expensive, better filter... Is Mahle better? I don't know. In two years using them, I've been very happy with them. In two years using them and monitoring (testing oil) samples, I'm convinced these filters are very "OK" as an alternative to the OEM filter.
Mike
Now, here's what Mahle claims:
"New fully synthetic oil filter media
To meet the increased chemical and thermal requirements on the oil filter in modern high-performance gasoline engines, MAHLE has developed new fully synthetic filter elements.
In addition to ever more intense competition and increased environmental awareness calling for new concepts aimed at reducing costs and saving resources, new lubricants and fuels have been developed in response to new combustion processes and the need to reduce fuel consumption. The use of new fully synthetic high-performance oils enables service intervals of up to 50,000 km to be achieved. Owing to the new underlying conditions, conventional filter base materials are becoming less and less suitable, as the excessively high nitration of the oils leads to an embrittlement of the filtration medium. A new fully synthetic fleece made from polyester has therefore been developed. The twin-layer medium consists of a support and filtration layer so as to achieve the highest filtration performance, prevent fold block formation, and attain optimum stability. The new oil filter medium is seven times more resistant to ageing than pure cellulose fibers and, at the same time, provides increased dirt absorption capacity with the same or even lower pressure losses.
To manufacture these high-performance filter elements, MAHLE has developed a new production and machining process. During the extensive testing and verification processes, it became clear that an external support for the paper block was necessary on account of the diagonal flow of untreated oil and so as to prevent fold block formation. An innovative solution was realized here as well. The new filter medium was tested in several new gasoline engines and has been successfully advanced to series production in the meantime."
I have no issues buying OEM Porsche filters. However, when they flow the same, or less than another manufacturer, I tend to want to go with the less expensive, better filter... Is Mahle better? I don't know. In two years using them, I've been very happy with them. In two years using them and monitoring (testing oil) samples, I'm convinced these filters are very "OK" as an alternative to the OEM filter.
Mike
Indeed the post above points to the major concern I had, as synthetic oils and longer change intervals can cause premature embrittlement of the paper (in this case cellulite) material. The fact that MAHLE acknowledges this and seems to have a solution makes me feel better.
Thanks for the info.
#12
10-13-2009, 11:33 AM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 319
Rep Power: 33
Last bit of conversation with MAHLE engineer
Arman >> Thank You for your response. One last questions, since you do not publish specifications. Does MAHLE warranty their filters to meet or exceed OE specifications?
matthias.stegmueller >> Yes we do. By the way, we are the largest manufacturer of filters in the world!
-Arman
Arman >> Thank You for your response. One last questions, since you do not publish specifications. Does MAHLE warranty their filters to meet or exceed OE specifications?
matthias.stegmueller >> Yes we do. By the way, we are the largest manufacturer of filters in the world!
-Arman
#14
10-13-2009, 12:36 PM
Anikzad, you beat me to the answer
on this forum. Just got a response from Mr. Stegmueller 3 minutes ago with the same answer. The old Mahle number was OX128, now the new number as you indicated is OX128/1D.
on this forum. Just got a response from Mr. Stegmueller 3 minutes ago with the same answer. The old Mahle number was OX128, now the new number as you indicated is OX128/1D.
#15
10-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Good to know I didn't destroy my motor.
But I generally do the oil changes myself and always check the filter to see if there are any particles that shouldn't be.
Plus, I'm sure many of the people on the forum change a lot more frequent than 15000 miles. I opt for about 7500 miles or once a year whatever comes sooner.
But I generally do the oil changes myself and always check the filter to see if there are any particles that shouldn't be.
Plus, I'm sure many of the people on the forum change a lot more frequent than 15000 miles. I opt for about 7500 miles or once a year whatever comes sooner.