I've not done it but Blackstone labs will analyze your oil.

 

Yup. Mine going out soon.

 

what car that would install an aquamist kit is "wet intake"?

 

we have a dry intake with no runners to the ports. A big Balloon, basically. So how do you assure that each cylinder gets water meth equally. How do you assure that say 4 cylinders are getting an over abundance of meth and 2 are hardly getting any. When this condition happens how do you assure that you don't go lean in those two cylinders. The ECU is not reading that part. there are not 6 widebands each reading what is happening to each cylinder.

CJV posted a picture of an intake sometime ago, that had individual runners. Something like that would work well for a water/meth kit.

 

Here is one of my Blackstone analysis reports....I was running water/meth and had 2 track days on this oil:



I'll have another report to post up soon.

 

In theory you are correct... But keep this in mind.

The me7.8 has individual cylinder injection control... Bosch/Porsche has opted not to use this and all 6 injectors are the same size.

With proper atomization of meth, distribution will be proportionate to air distribution through out the engine.

I trust that Porsche has designed a manifold that can flow fairly evenly.... If they didn't, more people would be burning up a single specific cylinder, over and over and over again. Do you hear of this happening?

 

Tony, Audikp, yes my concern is that water/meth is not being spread evenly. I am sure the porsche plenum is very well designed for air flow into the ports. However, how is this any different than NOS. How much atomization does it take to make sure that there is no separation of mist and air before it gets to cylinders? one reason why I have not gone to this.

Again, maybe this is a discussion best on a meth thread as I don't believe that meth was the cause of this engines failure. I think the tune already had that covered (my opinion).

Sorry to OP for inserting this discussion here. I believe you will know very soon what happened to your engine. Then you can hopefully tell the rest of us.

 

Are you comparing meth to nitrous?

You are correct... this isnt the correct thread for this discussion. Feel free to start another if you would like.

 

You guys have made some valid points and missed some directly staring you in the face.
Yes, the k2418g's don't have much on top, yes it's a waste of time to run them up there. The dyno operator was quite agressive on all the cars that day and tended just to run them up to redline before letting out. Normally, when driving the cars, especially at 1/4 mile, you'll shift them around 6k for best times, sometimes even lower when running higher boost on a k2418g car. The power just goes flat up there.
With that in mind, look at the load values up top. 136% load? Yes, that's pretty pathetic, but that's also suggesting that there's really not much airflow at that point, thus, the torque is way down, and the timing goes up.
The knock sensing is very good on these engines. It will adapt it's own timing curve. When we started the runs, he was not running much meth and the timing was quite low, as was the power levels. As we cranked the meth up, the timing followed, the power went up, and it got pretty happy up there.
The lambda's also were in closed loop, looking for 11.8's, varying a little as the meth came in and it worked at a good overall afr curve.
His injector ms. were not even at 100%, where without meth, they would have long been done, but the extra fueling provided by the meth made the injector requirement much lower. Even at 1.4 he still was only tapping on 90% injector duty cycle.
A stock map is looking for 105 to 110% load in the upper rpm ranges, Jason's was only hitting 135% load up there, only about 25% over stock at that point. Yes, not worth revving it up there with a k2418g, but also severely lacking any decent charge in the cylinder, thus the timing was able to put itself quite high to keep the torque up.
Similar to running an engine in the part throttle ranges where you'd have the throttle closed. The load values would be lower, the cylinder charge is lower, so the timing is increased. Where he was at WOT, but the air charge was severely diminished due to the 18g's just giving up up there and the timing is able to go up.
Typically, you can plot a timing curve in excel, invert it, and overlay it over the torque or load curve. Where the torque/load is high, the timing is low, where it's low, the timing is high. And the higher the rpm, the earlier you need to fire the spark due to the time it takes for the spark to reach full effect. F1 engines run stupid timing numbers at 19,000-21,000 rpm's, because they have to.
As for the meth, I personally have never been a fan of it, but it seems to be getting quite popular and people want it. I've always been afraid of people running meth, having a clogged injector, or simply run out and have a catastrophic failure, but that goes for any of these power adders. A clogged injector running on a C16 based car ate a cylinder up on us a while back, and you'd think C16 is about as safe as you can get! The overall afr's looked nice, but at high boost/rpm that injector had different characteristics and caused a problem. It even flow tested right, but the ohms were 16 vs. 11.5 like all the rest after looking at it.
Sorry for the rambling... Just thought I'd clear up a few things from what we saw when we were there.
I'm interested to see what they find after a tear down as well. And hoping we can all be further enlightened by this experience.

 

A dyno operator, no matter how aggressive, cannot run the car to 7500 plus unless the rev limit is changed in the ecu.

 

hey guys, I don't want this thread to fall too far away from what it was intended to do but i think it's really good that we are discussing how healthy meth is in relation to our engine design. I think that many are starting to use it in our cars... and I had a conversation yesterday with someone who compared it to using a nos system as well. I've used nos in the past (not on a porsche) and a direct port nos system has always been viewed upon as safer because you can more effectively spread the nitrous evenly to all cylinders. the big question now is... is meth or can meth be spread that way and if so, would it be much safer?

It is true that not many talk about their blown motors on this forum. I almost didn't post this because of numerous reasons, but in the end, I hope the right questions will be asked here and it can be beneficial to everyone. Unfortunately, I have not opened this engine up yet because I haven't decided what to do with this car.

In regards to the tuner bashing here, please stop it right now. There are many reasons why this engine could've gone... everyone in this thread is speculating, even if there is logic behind it. At this time, it is completely unfair to bash the tuner without proof. If this engine opens up and there is reason to believe the tune had anything to do with this situation, I will deal with it directly with the tuner. Thanks guys and I will continue to keep you posted as I find out more.

 

Jason I think I speak on behalf of the bunch in saying I appreciate that you have shared this experience with all of us. Regardless of what the culprit maybe it has opened up eyes to all of the possible downfalls that could creep up. Realistically if the oil pump failed on a bone stock car the same thing would have happened. If it was related to aftermarket ingredient failure i'm sure the appropriate resolution will be reached. Best of luck and thanks for keeping us updated.

 

Kevin,

The increased rev-limit is the choice of the car's owner. I had a raised rev-limit in my P-car when it was on a stock motor, from 2 different tuners (GIAC and Proto). If/when I purchase another stock motor p-car, I will also have the rev-limit raised on that car as well.

 

I think there is a small misconception of how the water injection system actually works. The pumps operate at 160psi, and are spraying through tiny nozzles (1mm or less). What you basically end up with when these things spray is a mist, not so much a stream or jet of water. It atomizes with the air almost instantly, so really it is spread throughout the cylinders as effectively as the air itself.

 

correst as scott said , its up to the owner where he wants the rev limiter set , for instance i have mine set at 7200.

i trust Todd k, with his tuning and my car hes a tuning genious !