thanks dude

thanks for your tips on PM.. i'll take everything into consideration.

 

sorry to hear. no way to know for sure until you open her up.

 

So kevin are rods the weak link here assuming proper tiuning and fuel?

 

OP, Did you have a 5 bar FPR?

 

I think he had a 5 bar.

 

+1 When I was running stock injectors and fuel pump with my 24/18Gs we were getting into the high 12's/low 13's AFR. This was when I had about 530rwhp on a Dynojet.

Really sorry to hear this man, I wish you the best of luck getting it sorted out.

 

Yes, i do have a 5bar fpr

Thanks for this information. It's even more obvious to me now that I really need to think this through in terms of what I need to do... I really appreciate everyones input here.

 

Sorry to hear! I have a similar setup and do occasionally take it to 7400 RPM. I think I'm gonna keep it under 7K going forward!

 

Not hard to find info on this honestly -> http://www.whitfieldoil.com/www/docs...-gasoline.html Read section on crankcase oil.

also Royal Purple briefly touches on it here -> http://www.royalpurple.com/faqs-racing-rh.html

Note that there are oils specifically designed for engines running full methanol. You have to flow a TON of methanol to fully fuel an engine and so of course soome of it gets by the rings. Just using it on high boost once in awhile for octane bump and intake cooling with a normal synthetic it should be no issue. But run too much, run lots of it - say in an all day tuning session - and you MIGHT have issues. If this was really oil failure of some sort this COULD be a possibility.

Obviously I have no clue how much meth you ran, how long it was tuned, how rich the motor was run, how well atmoized it was, or how many tanks you went through on that oil. I could be way off but for folks running lots of meth it's worth considering. Run a top end lube like Klotz in it, mix a little water in it maybe to cut the corrosive tendency, and pay attention to the oil. High RPMs are probably a much more likely killer here since forces go up exponentially but this should at least be considered I think.

 

Apparently there is much speculation about what might have happened...oil pump, rods, oil dilution from meth etc but there is a datalog that shows what DID happen, at least for a brief snapshot during that parrticular pull. I guess we can assume the datalog is from a dyno pull since it clearly ran to redline which the op said did not happen at the point of failure. Why would there be 36 degrees of timing? That seems excessive especially at those high rpms. I know what my timimg numbers are as well as Joe's and they are a far,far cry from 36 degrees. Also, why run a stock motor with a basic 18g kit to 7500 plus? The turbos are dead long before redline and the extra revs seem redundant. I don't understand this one and I wish the OP well....

 

I certainly have less expertise than most but I will say that running 550 to the wheels on a stock fuel system/5 bar with 91 craptane (and yes I know you had a meth set up) would make me very uncomfortable.

 

I believe he had a 5bar.

The meth will also put a pretty nice fat number on the A/F meter. However meth sprayed into the intake shouldn't ever be a real serious crutch or be relied upon to provide a significant portion of the fueling using kits like this. It is an excellent way to knock down intake temps and to provide octane but when it is relied upon for significant fueling flowing through an intake designed to flow only air you may begin to run into mixture issues.

This was pretty hotly debated in the Supra world back when I and others were doing it using aggro pumps, greenhouse misters, Tupperware tanks, and solid state A/C relays for motor control but we did it and we made power. I also think that most of us didn't flood the motor with the stuff and tried to be somewhat conservative. My power would go from 550RWHP to around 630 on meth safely and my fuel system was proven to over 700RWHP on high octane gas alone so meth wasn't a crutch but rather an assist. I was octane limited, methanol helped fix that. I'd have run E85 if it were readily available and skipped the meth. <shrug>

IMO that's the way it ought to be unless you have a dedicated set of injectors and a fuel system for it. Use it to cool, use it to provide some octane, let it run rich knowing it may not distribute evenly, and don't get too greedy....

Hopefully none of that came into play here. Hopefully this was simply a motor that was ready to go. Maybe a bearing was defective, maybe the oil pump gave up, maybe the RPMs went just a bit too high and a rod suffered. RPMs more so than sheer power are what I'd worry most about, piston speeds grow exponentially...

P.S. Another thing we used to debate... the IAT was post methanol injection point on our cars. How much of an IAT decrease were we really seeing vs cooling of the sensor from the liquid vapor hitting it? Fun stuff to ponder and tons of fun when you have access to tons of datalogging capability - oh how I miss that!

 

oddly enough i haven't heard much talk around here of oversizing and chamfering the oil galley holes in the crank shaft and mods like these.

nice to see someone looking at it from another perspective
and i havent heard much chatter about ceramic or coatings on the pistons or bearing coatings or anything strange for a high power automotive forum or maybe the shops are just holding out on good discussion *shrug*



and on the meth in the oil idea seen it alot in the offroad scene theres a reason they drain the oil on their bikes after every ride and drain the whole bike from Methanol and flush with gasoline. Klotz benol is good stuff i run the R50 in my two strokes.

 

I gave up on manual boost controllers years ago (on Japanese cars). Back then there was a lot more shooting the dark and we didn't have the tools to data log properly, etc... We'd set the boost via a manual and/or electronic boost controller and hope it worked.

The problem with that setup is that over time there is a tendency to want to boost it up. 1/4 PSI at a time. next thing you know you're 3 psi over the suggested limit, get into a quick race with someone. By this time you are thinking that 3 over the original boost pressure is OK (it's probably not) but you crank it another 1/4 just for this run....

Manual boost controllers are very conducive to over exuberance and take away many safeguards built into this ECU to protect itself.

Please do not take this as an insult to anyone personally. In truth I don't even know if the OP even has a boost controller at all or claiming that he is to blame. Just wanted to share my story with someone if it can keep them from grief down the road.

I'm a fan of ECU boost control for the reasons stated above.

I do have a question: what is generally thought of as a safe modded rev limit? The first gear in these cars can use all the help it can get.

 

Well said Ari,
but I have one and I never go over the suggested limit... neither did I on my 800 hp Evo...

Another thing to consider... most guys run the car with upgraded turbos that come with WG springs... like the 1 bar which I am not a fan of... and during colder weather they overboost considerably and cannot control the psi at all... many posts have been made about problems with overboosting after the aftermarket WGs springs were put on or after the temps dropped...
On stock springs I could not agree with you more... but on aftermarket springs I believe its important to have... or alt least have a method that keeps the PSi where they should be...