Who uses something other then 0w-40 Mobil 1 and why
#16
11-30-2009, 06:41 PM
Valvoline VR1 20W-50. I've been using it for the past 4 years because it contains Zn & P , and also because my tuner recommends it over anything else for a P-car.
More info: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...acing-oil.html
More info: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...acing-oil.html
Originally Posted by Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems
Until the oil manufacturers began reducing Zn & P from oils about 4 years ago, cams and rockers lasted the life of the engine unless the spray bars became obstructed or a poor grade of oil was used (thats another whole subject).
With the mandated reduction of Zn & P, we've collected a significant number of failed cams and rockers in all 911 engines with mileages ranging from 20K to 80K. Having been in this business since 1975, the difference in the frequency of camshaft failures has been starkly apparent with the changes in oil formulations. I've not even addressed the issues with other engine parts such as intermediate shaft gears, as well.
For these and other reasons, we recommend the use of a premium oil containing 1200ppm of Zn & P for all 911 owners to ensure long engine component life. Naturally, oil change frequency is critical and we advise that the factory oil change recommendations should be shortened up for cars subjected to short trips.
With the mandated reduction of Zn & P, we've collected a significant number of failed cams and rockers in all 911 engines with mileages ranging from 20K to 80K. Having been in this business since 1975, the difference in the frequency of camshaft failures has been starkly apparent with the changes in oil formulations. I've not even addressed the issues with other engine parts such as intermediate shaft gears, as well.
For these and other reasons, we recommend the use of a premium oil containing 1200ppm of Zn & P for all 911 owners to ensure long engine component life. Naturally, oil change frequency is critical and we advise that the factory oil change recommendations should be shortened up for cars subjected to short trips.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 12-01-2009 at 07:48 PM.
#17
11-30-2009, 07:08 PM
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You may be right in using VR-1, but I don't have the guts to try it in my car.
I plan to stick with M1 5w-50 (5w-40 if cold). My fear is variocam starvation and the heat of the turbos. I suppose I am being overly cautious....
Here is my theory: the 5 to flow to the variocam stuff fast to avoid wear..the 50 to be good when the engine is hot.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Jeff
I plan to stick with M1 5w-50 (5w-40 if cold). My fear is variocam starvation and the heat of the turbos. I suppose I am being overly cautious....
Here is my theory: the 5 to flow to the variocam stuff fast to avoid wear..the 50 to be good when the engine is hot.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 11-30-2009 at 09:37 PM.
#22
12-01-2009, 04:57 AM
Registered User
I get mine on line.
SWR
#24
12-01-2009, 01:21 PM
That oil test was very interesting... being a person who used AMSoil on my previous cars to good success, I'm disappointed they weren't in the test to see how they stack up. I can say though, that I used the AMSoil race dominator line of oil in my EVO X that made 425 awhp and I was thrilled with it. I'd like to see if anyone is using AMSoil in their p-cars.
#26
12-01-2009, 05:18 PM
The dominator line is actually good oil.. Plenty of zinc and phosphorus and worked well in our Evo race motors..
#28
12-01-2009, 06:41 PM
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It's time to add this to the archive of discussions in the Library of Congress...subsection...Porsche Oil Perferences....Pros and Cons of Various Attributes.
#29
12-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Here's some more information on Zn and P with regard to your Porsche motor, and why Protomotive recommends using Valvoline VR1 instead of Mobile 1. You guys that drive your cars hard should really look hard at this stuff. Mobil 1 isn't the same oil it was back when Porsche initially tested it for use in their engines.
http://www.lnengineering.com/store/c...arts-p-60.html
Originally Posted by lmengineering.com
Porsche recommends and uses Mobil 1 0w40 as a factory fill in new vehicles and their 15w50 has been a popular choice used by many in the aftermarket in aircooled models.
Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives and switching to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants in their new low SAPS oils since Zn, P, and sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters.
Porsche’s recommendation in hand, our initial analysis from 2005 and 2006 and from virgin oil analyses going back to the 1990s, we found that the older formulations of Mobil lubricants tested, including Mobil 1, have had higher Zn and P content than current SM formulations. Even current "re-introduced" formulations are not the original formulations many shops and owners were used to. Aside from reduced Zn and P levels (now restored in certain products), many products with "adequate" Zn and P still use high levels of Ca detergents, well documented in various SAE publications as known for causing more wear than Ca/Mg or Ca/Mg/Na detergents, as previously used in oils like Mobil 1 15w50, back when it was API SH/SJ rated and prior to reformulation.
This confirms the industry wide trend of the reduction of Zn and P from motor oils and switch to Ca-based detergents, with the eventual reduction to 0.06-0.08% or even worse, the elimination of these additives, which are essential to a Porsche engine's longevity. Depending on how detergent an oil is and which detergents are used, optimal Zn and P levels can range from 1200 to 1500 ppm, lower detergency oils requiring less Zn and P.
Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SM and CJ-4 motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones.
Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives and switching to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants in their new low SAPS oils since Zn, P, and sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters.
Porsche’s recommendation in hand, our initial analysis from 2005 and 2006 and from virgin oil analyses going back to the 1990s, we found that the older formulations of Mobil lubricants tested, including Mobil 1, have had higher Zn and P content than current SM formulations. Even current "re-introduced" formulations are not the original formulations many shops and owners were used to. Aside from reduced Zn and P levels (now restored in certain products), many products with "adequate" Zn and P still use high levels of Ca detergents, well documented in various SAE publications as known for causing more wear than Ca/Mg or Ca/Mg/Na detergents, as previously used in oils like Mobil 1 15w50, back when it was API SH/SJ rated and prior to reformulation.
This confirms the industry wide trend of the reduction of Zn and P from motor oils and switch to Ca-based detergents, with the eventual reduction to 0.06-0.08% or even worse, the elimination of these additives, which are essential to a Porsche engine's longevity. Depending on how detergent an oil is and which detergents are used, optimal Zn and P levels can range from 1200 to 1500 ppm, lower detergency oils requiring less Zn and P.
Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SM and CJ-4 motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 12-01-2009 at 07:52 PM.
#30
12-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Here's some more information on Zn and P with regard to your Porsche motor, and why Protomotive recommends using Valvoline VR1 instead of Mobile 1. You guys that drive your cars hard should really look hard at this stuff. Mobil 1 isn't the same oil it was back when Porsche initially tested it for use in their engines.
http://www.lnengineering.com/store/c...arts-p-60.html
http://www.lnengineering.com/store/c...arts-p-60.html