I agree with a lot that John just said, but there are also many of us with big heads and cams, 3.8L build outs @1100 rwhp etc etc all running on a ford maf at 2 bar without any drivability issues... it idles like stock. That ought to mean something...
Also, as in any HP game there is risk involved... thus some tuners develop different intake systems that to some may be more prone to failure meanwhile others run 1.7 bar on stock motors with belief that it will hold... who is wrong? who is right?
There are also many guys blowing stock mafs- especially the ones with bigger turbos and stock replacement after market filters etc etc... I think I can count at least 50 threads about that one... I have also seen debris fall into turbos on stock filters.... no secret there...
With that said, I do not see a need for a maf upgrade until 600 rwhp or so if the tuner knows what he is doing with the OEM maf.

The filter above the IC approach is less prone to failure if done right the first time( installed correctly as well)... mind you some guys run 12" wide rims and 19s and expect it to fit... it is the rubbing with the after market wheels and tires that usually will cause failure ... that is why if someone orders from me this intake I make sure they tell me what rim size they run... I have that one covered.
That set up is not for everyone... you have to be prudent and check up on your car as if its your baby irrelevant of the intake set up you run....
Anyways lets not take away from Ams' featured product... good work guys...

mark

 

Very cool. Looking forward to these results!

 

The slight surging at idle from the Ford/Proto MAF doesn't bother me at all...in fact I never really noticed it until John pointed it out.

I will be checking my full blow through set up from time to time but these are sacrifices I gladly make for more power. My GT2 is driven when I want a thrill, for daily drivability I take the old man sedan.

 

FWIW when I first had my GT3071/K24 Hybrids I ran a stock intake pipe setup. Long story short, I ended up sucking the anti-crush O-Ring into the turbo and it did this to it...


When my rebuilt 3076/K24's showed up I had a set of EVOMS intake tubes ready to go on the car. Which I will add can be put on with the motor in the car. It is not very easy because you have to sawza the stock intake pipe at one point to get it out.

Regardless, that setup looks very clean Martin and the AMS crew. You all are developing some nice stuff for these cars!

 

A few years ago we actually ran a 996tt after doing a clutch and switching from stock intake piping to the S-car-go Carbon intake piping & plenum kit. It made about 15-20whp across the board and that was at just under 500whp if I remember correctly.

This will be interesting to see what these pipes do on our car.

-Martin

 

I believe these intake piping mods help more at high rpm and high speeds which you only see momentarily in a quarter mile run. I put EVOMS intake pipes on my car and retuned for them. Before the pipes I ran 186 mph at the mile. After the pipes, tune, and minor weight reduction I ran 198 mph with less good track conditions than before.

 

The main advantage is faster spooling...I had the S Car Go and tomorrow my full proto set up should be done.

 

Mike, that is a huge difference. Do you know exactly what they retuned for? I mean, what specifically changes with respect to the tune? Just trying to understand....

AMS, if I may ask, do you guys recommend a new flash if one were to only add your intake pipes?

 

Dave, I will tell you what little I know (which is not alot). EVOMS told me when I had their GT660 package (A28s, exhaust, headers, V-flow intake, injectors) with a race file that my setup was limited by turbo intake capacity on the stock pipes which are very restrictive. They said if the pipes were changed I would get faster spool and untimately higher boost. When I got the upgrade including software, fuel lines, and intake pipes, my boost went from 1.3 bar to 1.5 bar. The boost increase was probably mostly software mediated. The wastegates were also adjusted per EVOMS instruction to give more boost at lower rpms.
While I cant tell you exactly what they tuned, the car was totally different after this upgrade. It hit earlier and harder. The intake noise was much more audible. The most significant performance aspect, imo, was the car pulled hard all the way to the limiter. Before the pull had kind of died off at about 6500 rpm. This high speed pulling was graphically shown to me at the TX Mile:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...exas-mile.html

Now how much of the credit goes to intake pipes? I really dont know, but I think this is a critical supporting mod to pass a performance point in which the small tortuous stock pipes start to limit your engine especially at high rpm.

 

Our cars are MAF based, barring maxing out the MAF sensor and any weird map anomalies in the ECU, the ECU should compensate. I would be surprised if I see more than a 20-25whp difference on our dyno test honestly. For a small change like that you should not need a flash and the ECU should handle it no problem.

I've done quite a bit of testing in the past with turbo intake pipe sizes on different cars. A quick example here. Going from a 3" single intake on a 500whp car to a 4" intake gained absolutely nothing!! Air filters always rob some horsepower right? On our 1100whp drag car it made basically no difference going from a filter to open intake. What I'm saying is that bigger is not always better, unless you need it. What may seem like an obvious improvement might already be working fine in it's current form, hence the dyno testing

Out of curiosity, do most forum members know the difference between a MAF based and Speed Density ECU calibaration? If not this would be a perfect opportunity to explain a few things.

-Martin

 

The size appears to be good. The metal and aluminum materials is not good. The motor and exhaust is hot and the heat will transfer through heat sink to your the metal parts of your piping and then to your intale air. Heated air makes far less power because the available air expands which means less oxygen molecules in the same volume of air. Long story short ...... more oxygen allows more fuel and more fuel makes more power.

The first preference would be to go with none heat absorbing materials like S Car Go uses in their intake materials. The next best alternative is to send your metal parts to Swain and have them coated with a heat repelling coating.

Either way you will pick up power that previously was being robbed.

 

Looks good !

 

Of course hot air is less dense and makes less power but there is one thing you have to consider. For any significant amount of heat transfer to take place in piping you would need very slow moving air, and a lot of surface area, both of which are lacking in the intake piping.

That's why intercooler have large internal area and fins(turbulators). A giving mass flow rate of air moving into a larger cross section area means the velocity has to go down, giving time for more heat transfer, plus the very very large internal surface area of an intercooler provides more contact area for the air to aluminum. Like any heat sink that has fins for example.

The 996tt engine bay is probably in the 150 deg F range I'd guess, but I'll confirm with a IR temp gun. Even if the pipes stay at 150 deg F there will be very little influence on the actual intake air temp at the turbo inlet. I'd very surprised if it was more than 10 degrees difference at the air filter to turbo inlet. The good news is the car is getting an AIM MXL dash with full datalogging. I have thermocouple amplifiers and quick reacting exposed tip thermocouples that I can put at the air filter inlet and turbo inlet (after piping) to see the difference. I'll do this and let you guys know.

-Martin

 

^ Agree, at WOT the air velocities are way too high for any significant heat transfer within the given amount of pipe here.

 

This is exactly why I am so very interested in what a vac gauge will show with the stock setup vs some of the others. I have seen changes that you would fully expect to gain power gain nothing and I've seen SMALL changes on some cars like going from a ribbed 4inch long intake pipe to a smooth one make measurable differences Without some sort of testing, datalogging, or other form of measurement you're shooting in the dark. For instance we think that the metal pipes won't pick up much heat and that the bay is say 150degrees. But if the pipe makes contact with ANY metal it's likely to be WAY hotter - phenolic intake gaskets are a good example of parts made to stop this kind of heat transfer. Even a half inch of air space can mean the difference between a warm part and one that's burning hot. So, without testing can we really be sure? Often times things like the little intake pipe I mentioned above would seem to have "obvious" consequences but without testing you can not be sure - so I'm VERY interested in what sorts of power is found testing these pieces.

that 4inch pipe was on a Lightning truck intake side. I watched back to back pulls without it, with it, and then without it again. Clocking the MAF even made some power differences but that was tested separately. Dyno testing and datalogging are so very important - it kills me to see someone release a part with no data! I'm happy to see we'll get some with this part!