TO Track or NOT to Track Your Turbo.......
#76
01-02-2010, 04:30 AM
Registered User
Man, Log off and take my wife to dinner, and then watch a little telivision, to bed, and wake up to this... 
How about this statement:
Within the limits of the geometry of the suspension, and at any given track day, where there are a bunch of amatures on track, the 996TT can hold its own and be in the top 5% of participants, with some suspension, brake, and aero mods.
Can we all agree on that statement?
Steve, I lap with racecars when I'm in my Porsche. Full caged and gutted... That's the best statement I can make. When they load up their cars into their trailers, and I do the same, they go home and put theirs to bed until the next track event. I go home and swap tires and drive mine to work. Comparing the two beyond that, to me, is pointless. Track times will always tell the truth, but lets face it, a racecar, with its purpose-built nature and power to weight is a very formidable foe. To be able to stay on the same lap with one is saying something. To be able to pass lesser drivers in them, is, Well just plain fun.
I'll have more pics of my little Zcar monster up after I get it to the point of completion that will allow it to be properly washed, waxed and ready to roll... Did I mention we'll be hanging a tag on it and "testing it" on the street? Va. has their Antique plate program that I'll be using to its fullest.
Mike
How about this statement:
Within the limits of the geometry of the suspension, and at any given track day, where there are a bunch of amatures on track, the 996TT can hold its own and be in the top 5% of participants, with some suspension, brake, and aero mods.
Can we all agree on that statement?
Steve, I lap with racecars when I'm in my Porsche. Full caged and gutted... That's the best statement I can make. When they load up their cars into their trailers, and I do the same, they go home and put theirs to bed until the next track event. I go home and swap tires and drive mine to work. Comparing the two beyond that, to me, is pointless. Track times will always tell the truth, but lets face it, a racecar, with its purpose-built nature and power to weight is a very formidable foe. To be able to stay on the same lap with one is saying something. To be able to pass lesser drivers in them, is, Well just plain fun.
I'll have more pics of my little Zcar monster up after I get it to the point of completion that will allow it to be properly washed, waxed and ready to roll... Did I mention we'll be hanging a tag on it and "testing it" on the street? Va. has their Antique plate program that I'll be using to its fullest.
Mike
#77
01-02-2010, 06:42 AM
Mike... I agree that the 996TT with a few basic mods can hold it's own and even pass most GT3/RS's... IMHO, I don't for one minute think it can compete with a Cup Car, I'm sorry but I don't!... again it does depends a lot on the circuit, last year I was on track 19 Full Days and on 6 very different Circuits up against Cup Cars, DTM's, Radicals, etc... some circuits you could be close to a Cup Car but still a couple of seconds of the pace and some would just check out and leave you for dead... IMO that's all!
My car is stripped also virtually identical to Toms car now apart from Aircon... I will happily send you specs later... actually away travelling South now to work on car.
My car is stripped also virtually identical to Toms car now apart from Aircon... I will happily send you specs later... actually away travelling South now to work on car.
Last edited by 996TT_STEVO; 01-02-2010 at 06:47 AM.
#78
01-02-2010, 09:05 AM
A street driven car will always be at a disadvantage to a race prepped car and that's not always due to the level of the prep.
If you have a car with a full cage, proper seats/harnesses that's trailed to the event and you have a different car to get to work with, you tend to push WAY harder than in your daily driver that needs to take you to work on Monday.
I always drive 8/10th's on the track because of this. Fellow instructors tell me I could go faster and I always answer with a smile that I know that, but I need to drive to work on Monday...
If you have a car with a full cage, proper seats/harnesses that's trailed to the event and you have a different car to get to work with, you tend to push WAY harder than in your daily driver that needs to take you to work on Monday.
I always drive 8/10th's on the track because of this. Fellow instructors tell me I could go faster and I always answer with a smile that I know that, but I need to drive to work on Monday...
#79
01-02-2010, 09:47 AM
In the end, aren't we all a bunch of amateurs out to have a good time over all else. I don't know about you guys, but nobody is paying me to drive my car or throwing up sponsor money to pay my car costs. For the 996TT to be able to do all it does and pass 9/10ths of all the cars out there gives me such a thrill, who cares about the rest. Yea I love to learn and want to become a better driver, but I'm never going to be a pro, I don't care about club racing. All I really care about is having a blast and driving my car home in the same shape it showed up in. Very few cars can give you as much as the turbo.
It's about time the 996tt gets some respect as a Street/Track car. It's not the fastest thing out there on the track but when properly set up it's one hell of a track car that can hang with some serious track weapons out there!.....as a bonus! can be driven home in time to pick up wife/girlfriend for dinner/movies LOL
#80
01-02-2010, 10:39 AM
I know at least two 996TT here that can lap on the same times of GT3cup cars, on different circuits like Monza, Mugello and Vallelunga. And I'm not talking about 800hp cars. They have no more than 500AWHP,upgraded suspensions/coilovers, GT3 CUP brakes, racing seats.
#81
01-02-2010, 12:38 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 
And that's all it takes. Around 500 whp, a good wing/splitter combo, a good set of coilovers, sways, (with some other adjustable suspension bits) and weight reduction (not gutted though). This is not building a race car territory, most of the stuff can be had from other stock Porsche vehicles.
Cup Cars are built to run those times ALL DAY, a Turbo can be built to be a sprint wonder. You can't keep up for long, at least not nearly as reliably, but for a at least a little while, you can give a cup some serious problems.
Disclaimer: This does not apply to everyone, you have to be a talented driver. There are Turbos all over the place with mods out the ying yang that are barely beating stock cars. This does not apply to everyone.
#82
01-02-2010, 12:52 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Bend, WA
Age: 50
Posts: 2,427
Rep Power: 162
Cool thread. At least we're all in total agreement that the 996TT is one of the absolute best values ever out there for a car you can drive to work, drive in slippery conditions, and get some serious enjoyment at the track.
#83
01-02-2010, 02:41 PM
This does not apply to everyone
#84
01-02-2010, 02:47 PM
I simply said that you can run with Cup Cars, I don't recall ever saying anything about even being faster than the fastest Cups, but you can surely be in the mix.
I know exactly how much it would costs, and I can list the parts you need if you like so we can price it together, I'm not underestimating anything.
You're trying to compare your amateur setup and driving to a professional series in order to compare the cars. Does that make any sense to you? There are plenty of amateur cup racing series to compare to.
BTW here is an EVO with ~ 384 hp on MPSC in traffic, with a passenger running 2:51 at Spa. I would guess a pro in a GT3/RS could run better than you stated. And in your car MUCH MUCH better on slicks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZLN6_37O0
I'm not mistaken, but I do agree that you can't tune a 3-4 way suspension BY YOURSELF. You get an experienced pro to set them up and then you drive it, you'll at least be close to what the suspension has to offer. Goes on here on a regular basis. And data logging is the norm, can't be competitive without it.
BTW is your car a tip??? Sounded like it in your spa vid.
I know exactly how much it would costs, and I can list the parts you need if you like so we can price it together, I'm not underestimating anything.
You're trying to compare your amateur setup and driving to a professional series in order to compare the cars. Does that make any sense to you? There are plenty of amateur cup racing series to compare to.
BTW here is an EVO with ~ 384 hp on MPSC in traffic, with a passenger running 2:51 at Spa. I would guess a pro in a GT3/RS could run better than you stated. And in your car MUCH MUCH better on slicks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZLN6_37O0
I'm not mistaken, but I do agree that you can't tune a 3-4 way suspension BY YOURSELF. You get an experienced pro to set them up and then you drive it, you'll at least be close to what the suspension has to offer. Goes on here on a regular basis. And data logging is the norm, can't be competitive without it.
BTW is your car a tip??? Sounded like it in your spa vid.
Last edited by iLLM3; 01-02-2010 at 02:49 PM.
#85
01-03-2010, 04:41 AM
Registered User
Yup Dez, Steve is running an auto... Not sure how much that is hurting him, or not, since his car is so modified. Again, I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a street car (the 996TT) and a purpose built world beating race car (the Cupcar). The fact that a few here have run laps with them is a testiment to the fact that the 996TT, when properly sorted is such a great overall platfrom.
Mike
Mike
#86
01-03-2010, 09:48 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551
That tip has to be killing some time, if you watch his spa video you can hear it downshifting exit the slowest corner. Not to mention you can't preselect gears without actually being slower on the track because autos are fastest in auto mode and not the manual one with the paddles or whatever.
That being said, I haven't been able to find anything faster than him at Spa (in street cars) amongst some fast cars and decent looking drivers so he can drive. I think he might have gotten more from the car if it were a 6speed. But on shorter, twistier circuits that auto will KILL you, which may explain his problems there.
That being said, I haven't been able to find anything faster than him at Spa (in street cars) amongst some fast cars and decent looking drivers so he can drive. I think he might have gotten more from the car if it were a 6speed. But on shorter, twistier circuits that auto will KILL you, which may explain his problems there.
Last edited by heavychevy; 01-03-2010 at 09:51 AM.
#87
01-03-2010, 11:33 AM
Yup Dez, Steve is running an auto... Not sure how much that is hurting him, or not, since his car is so modified. Again, I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a street car (the 996TT) and a purpose built world beating race car (the Cupcar). The fact that a few here have run laps with them is a testiment to the fact that the 996TT, when properly sorted is such a great overall platfrom.
Mike
Mike
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-buster-5.html
#89
01-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 Sure you have the right Steve?... I'm not running an Auto
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-buster-5.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-buster-5.html
