Can the 996 Turbo handle like a GT3?
#61
01-31-2010 | 07:05 PM
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I'm honestly not interested in the geometry changes from the speeds my car has gone with minimal mods, I know for a fact that a more adjustable suspension dialed in with some aero help with give me what I need.
When it comes down to it, the geometry changes are really only worth being able to drop your car a little more and for street cars none of us is going to slam the car on the ground like a cup car. Even then, it's only worth a few tenths for a pro driver. Amateurs will hardly be able to tell the difference or any improvement.
I'm more worried about achieving proper gearing and/or higher revs than suspension geometry changes for a street ride height car.
Just my opinion and approach.
When it comes down to it, the geometry changes are really only worth being able to drop your car a little more and for street cars none of us is going to slam the car on the ground like a cup car. Even then, it's only worth a few tenths for a pro driver. Amateurs will hardly be able to tell the difference or any improvement.
I'm more worried about achieving proper gearing and/or higher revs than suspension geometry changes for a street ride height car.
Just my opinion and approach.
#62
02-01-2010 | 07:48 AM
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I brought up power when you (and many other members) brought up lap times.
And thanks for pointing out things in bold for me. I really had a hard time finding them without your guidance.[/sarcasm]
You can back track your statements all you like. I don't gain or lose anything.
You actually seem like you know what you're talking about, but you tend to lose yourself in your own posts. No hard feelings though, we're all here just to share thoughts and opinions on the cars we love.
I really like this thread and I am enjoying reading everyone's opinions. Everyone has a different approach to reaching his/her conclusions which ultimately ends up in people buying different cars.
And thanks for pointing out things in bold for me. I really had a hard time finding them without your guidance.[/sarcasm]
You can back track your statements all you like. I don't gain or lose anything.
You actually seem like you know what you're talking about, but you tend to lose yourself in your own posts. No hard feelings though, we're all here just to share thoughts and opinions on the cars we love.
I really like this thread and I am enjoying reading everyone's opinions. Everyone has a different approach to reaching his/her conclusions which ultimately ends up in people buying different cars.
#64
02-01-2010 | 10:07 AM
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then you haven't been paying attention.
#65
02-01-2010 | 10:57 AM
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What doesn't make sence is the amount of money I spent on the GT2 to run a 2 :00 at VIR.. in a truley street legal car with carpet and AC .. Yes I ran it with the radio and ac on low .. The turbo can do the same.. Plenty of peeps can do it.. My old car took second place OLA last year .. So I understand the arguements
But take very inexpensive Gt3 .. Put half the Money in it and you will walk away from the TT.. I have done it .. 2:03 at Vir all stock except cs motons with no shock pressure adjusted.. Worn out Hoosiers
Not saying any correct answer or anyone is wrong wrong.. Just certian cars built for certian things that's all. I remember jacking up my tt's. the rear wheel car would slowly come up at the rear.. I jack up my 3's and three wheels be off the ground before you know it.. Don't ask me.. Stiff is good .. A lot if tuners will tell you they can do it .. But they are in the bus.. To sell parts and work on cars..
Put the two on the track .. I'll take the 3 with 1/3 the money in it than the tt my times will be faster than the tt..
Mike Kelly not trying to offend you!!!! Lol or disrespect
All the math and charts aside ..
But take very inexpensive Gt3 .. Put half the Money in it and you will walk away from the TT.. I have done it .. 2:03 at Vir all stock except cs motons with no shock pressure adjusted.. Worn out Hoosiers
Not saying any correct answer or anyone is wrong wrong.. Just certian cars built for certian things that's all. I remember jacking up my tt's. the rear wheel car would slowly come up at the rear.. I jack up my 3's and three wheels be off the ground before you know it.. Don't ask me.. Stiff is good .. A lot if tuners will tell you they can do it .. But they are in the bus.. To sell parts and work on cars..
Put the two on the track .. I'll take the 3 with 1/3 the money in it than the tt my times will be faster than the tt..
Mike Kelly not trying to offend you!!!! Lol or disrespect
All the math and charts aside ..
Last edited by 930man; 02-01-2010 at 11:28 AM.
#69
02-01-2010 | 12:30 PM
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I'm signed up for the Zone 2 event. I have a mysterious brake issue going on though that has me uneasy to go to VIR on it though, but as of now, I'm planning on being there next month. The weather on the other hand........
I came up there with those raggedy R6's in 08 that I bought used whatever grip they had left was gone by the time I learned the track (yeah 2-3 sessions, done). I'm coming on NT-01's but will have my yokos RTG.
Matt I do think you underestimate your old GT2, you did 2:00 on the old pavement, from what I have heard and seen, most people have picked up a second or two since they did the improvements which I'm pretty sure you haven't had the GT2 since that happened.
#71
02-01-2010 | 01:43 PM
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I brought up power when you (and many other members) brought up lap times.
And thanks for pointing out things in bold for me. I really had a hard time finding them without your guidance.[/sarcasm]
You can back track your statements all you like. I don't gain or lose anything.
You actually seem like you know what you're talking about, but you tend to lose yourself in your own posts. No hard feelings though, we're all here just to share thoughts and opinions on the cars we love.
I really like this thread and I am enjoying reading everyone's opinions. Everyone has a different approach to reaching his/her conclusions which ultimately ends up in people buying different cars.
And thanks for pointing out things in bold for me. I really had a hard time finding them without your guidance.[/sarcasm]
You can back track your statements all you like. I don't gain or lose anything.
You actually seem like you know what you're talking about, but you tend to lose yourself in your own posts. No hard feelings though, we're all here just to share thoughts and opinions on the cars we love.
I really like this thread and I am enjoying reading everyone's opinions. Everyone has a different approach to reaching his/her conclusions which ultimately ends up in people buying different cars.
Wasn't trying to be a dick with bolding, just wanted to point out what pieces of the post I was referring to.
Agree with the rest of your post, it's all in good fun!
Cheers
#72
02-01-2010 | 03:23 PM
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It comes down to so very much. However IMO due to the power source being twin turbo I feel that the exact response the engine gives off will always be slightly out of sync when compared to anything NA. And thats before even discussing AWD. Not to mention how the car reacts with the added weight affecting polar moment of inertia.
Just my two cents... You could make it handle great and the power potentials are so great the you could build it to put down much faster laps then a GT3.
Just my two cents... You could make it handle great and the power potentials are so great the you could build it to put down much faster laps then a GT3.
#73
02-01-2010 | 05:10 PM
I got a ride in Matt (930mans) GT2 before he sold it to Peter. The car flat flew and if I had it to do over again, I'd absolutely buy the GT2 over EITHER the GT3 or the Turbo... And Matt, you're one hell of a wheelman, which doesn't hurt... Turning 2.01s and 2.00s in that car was impressive as hell, I'm sure... And yea, I know you were turning those times, because I know what McNemar was running in his car, and you were glued to his bumper most weekends...
You other guys need to stay focused and not turn this into some pissing match...
Mike
You other guys need to stay focused and not turn this into some pissing match...
Mike
#74
02-01-2010 | 06:22 PM
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I agree, lets keep our focus on the topic. So since were brushing on GT2's -here's a question: 996 GT2's were famed "the widow-maker" because of the snappiness at high speeds...apparently. I read somewhere once that within the GT2 community enthusiast figured out how to tweak this and after that the car drove like a dream. True? if so, what is the tweaking secret?
#75
02-02-2010 | 12:19 AM
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Since you guys started bringing the GT2 into the conversation (which I believe is a natural evolution to the topic), here's a quote from Topgear that sheds some light:
The regular Turbo will tackle corners at a speed that defies belief. It's so good, so competent, that it's almost a bit boring. Boredom is not an emotion you will even vaguely encounter in the GT2 when you reach a corner. Like its less incendiary brothers, it now has Porsche's stability management system, which monitors vertical and lateral loads, traction, and brake force distribution.
On this car, you are invited to disable it in three stages, but it's so well calibrated, you'd have to be nuts to drive without it on the road. Even in damp conditions, the GT2 is obscenely good. Perhaps too intimidating for any adjustability, but who adjusts a 523bhp 911?
Conclusion? This is the classic 911 experience on fast forward: ultra-high performance, Herculean traction out of corners, immense brakes. It's a supreme engineering achievement: it's Carrera GT fast but much better behaved. It should be The One.
But it isn't. The GT3 is. And it's fantastically instructive to drive them side-by-side. No kidding, 20 seconds in the cheaper, less powerful car is all it takes to convince. After 30 minutes, it starts getting sort of spiritual. The GT3 is very special indeed.
On this unfamiliar road, the GT3 is so good it's slightly spooky; brake, steer, change gear, accelerate - it breaks the process down into such clear, simple but devastatingly effective chunks that it's almost easy. Like Hendrix on the guitar or Miles Davis on the horn, there's an instinctive genius at work here.
On which musical note, it also sounds much better than the GT2 or Turbo. Forced induction is fun in a whooshy sort of way, and few things whoosh like a GT2. But the normally aspirated GT3 revs from 4,000rpm to a Wagnerian climax.
It's also more linear. Despite all of Porsche's best efforts, the GT2 still suffers from some lag. Not much, admittedly, but you have to time your inputs carefully nonetheless. The GT3 just goes, gives you exactly the right amount to work with and against. Assuming you buy into the basic 911 credo - the propulsive rear end, the absence of weight at the front - then this is the best. OK, it's not as fast as the GT2, but 60mph in 4.3secs and 192mph all-out is the sort of not-as-fast you can live with.
So, does that leave the Turbo somewhere in between, the perfect solution? As the everyday proposition it was designed to be, yes. Its wet- weather pace is extraordinary, and it has more grip than you will know what to do with. As an exercise in technical brilliance, it's difficult to fault. But you have to drive it like an absolute lunatic to really feel it, and no matter how fast you go round a corner or how late you brake, it'll cope. It's almost inhuman but, yes, probably the ultimate driving 'machine'.
The ultimate 911, on the other hand, is the one that remembers to put the driver centre-stage. And it's the GT3.
On this car, you are invited to disable it in three stages, but it's so well calibrated, you'd have to be nuts to drive without it on the road. Even in damp conditions, the GT2 is obscenely good. Perhaps too intimidating for any adjustability, but who adjusts a 523bhp 911?
Conclusion? This is the classic 911 experience on fast forward: ultra-high performance, Herculean traction out of corners, immense brakes. It's a supreme engineering achievement: it's Carrera GT fast but much better behaved. It should be The One.
But it isn't. The GT3 is. And it's fantastically instructive to drive them side-by-side. No kidding, 20 seconds in the cheaper, less powerful car is all it takes to convince. After 30 minutes, it starts getting sort of spiritual. The GT3 is very special indeed.
On this unfamiliar road, the GT3 is so good it's slightly spooky; brake, steer, change gear, accelerate - it breaks the process down into such clear, simple but devastatingly effective chunks that it's almost easy. Like Hendrix on the guitar or Miles Davis on the horn, there's an instinctive genius at work here.
On which musical note, it also sounds much better than the GT2 or Turbo. Forced induction is fun in a whooshy sort of way, and few things whoosh like a GT2. But the normally aspirated GT3 revs from 4,000rpm to a Wagnerian climax.
It's also more linear. Despite all of Porsche's best efforts, the GT2 still suffers from some lag. Not much, admittedly, but you have to time your inputs carefully nonetheless. The GT3 just goes, gives you exactly the right amount to work with and against. Assuming you buy into the basic 911 credo - the propulsive rear end, the absence of weight at the front - then this is the best. OK, it's not as fast as the GT2, but 60mph in 4.3secs and 192mph all-out is the sort of not-as-fast you can live with.
So, does that leave the Turbo somewhere in between, the perfect solution? As the everyday proposition it was designed to be, yes. Its wet- weather pace is extraordinary, and it has more grip than you will know what to do with. As an exercise in technical brilliance, it's difficult to fault. But you have to drive it like an absolute lunatic to really feel it, and no matter how fast you go round a corner or how late you brake, it'll cope. It's almost inhuman but, yes, probably the ultimate driving 'machine'.
The ultimate 911, on the other hand, is the one that remembers to put the driver centre-stage. And it's the GT3.