is 7.7 60-130 bad for my setup?
#31
02-21-2010, 04:09 PM
Mike Baileys car is strong and he is running right there with the quickest 18's. My point is, these turbos were supposed to be 24/18g killers. We are just not seeing it here on 6speed.
#32
02-21-2010, 04:13 PM
#33
02-21-2010, 04:14 PM
Hey guys!!
No more marks!!
IMO, there are far too many variables in the which car is faster equation to make simple statements like K24/20g>K24/18g>A28>GT-28 ect... Of course we all know these but they are easy to forget in a "discussion" ie atmospheric conditions (altitude, humidity, baro pressure, temp), road conditions, driver skill (esp 6sp) condition of car (boost leaks, worn parts, especially supporting mods, weight loss or gain, aerodynamics, pump or race tune), type of race 60-130 or quarter or standing mile. The only way to minimize (not eliminate) these variables is to run cars side by side at the same time.
I dont hold myself out as any kind of expert here but based on lookin around the boards I have hung more supporting mods on these A28s than anyone else here. I also have done significant weight loss mods. My car has slowly progressed from an 8.53s 60-130 to 6.14s all with A28s. My conclusions are as follows:
1. A28s are an excellent turbo for street (DD) cars because of their lightning quick spool.
2. Expectations have been high for these turbos but A28s require more supporting mods to be competitive (anywhere except a dyno or flow bench) than K24/18g and K24/20g.
3. Many tuners claim their version of the A28 is different than other tuners versions. In my observations, I cant say weather or not they are different, but they all seem to perform roughly the same on the street (given a low amount of supporting mods) where I have been able to view data. There have been some data published showing vast superiority of these turbos in flow testing and dynos but I cant see that this has translated on to the street at least at a level of supporting mods that the average driver is willing or able to buy and install.
4. Vince's car is a tip and he has injectors and meth. My car (6sp) ran a 7.20 when I had A28s, straight pipes, injectors, headers, and race gas. I think that Vince's car is performing at a level that is good for his level of supporting mods. I believe the tip is probably the difference between his car and my car at that level.
No more marks!!
IMO, there are far too many variables in the which car is faster equation to make simple statements like K24/20g>K24/18g>A28>GT-28 ect... Of course we all know these but they are easy to forget in a "discussion" ie atmospheric conditions (altitude, humidity, baro pressure, temp), road conditions, driver skill (esp 6sp) condition of car (boost leaks, worn parts, especially supporting mods, weight loss or gain, aerodynamics, pump or race tune), type of race 60-130 or quarter or standing mile. The only way to minimize (not eliminate) these variables is to run cars side by side at the same time.
I dont hold myself out as any kind of expert here but based on lookin around the boards I have hung more supporting mods on these A28s than anyone else here. I also have done significant weight loss mods. My car has slowly progressed from an 8.53s 60-130 to 6.14s all with A28s. My conclusions are as follows:
1. A28s are an excellent turbo for street (DD) cars because of their lightning quick spool.
2. Expectations have been high for these turbos but A28s require more supporting mods to be competitive (anywhere except a dyno or flow bench) than K24/18g and K24/20g.
3. Many tuners claim their version of the A28 is different than other tuners versions. In my observations, I cant say weather or not they are different, but they all seem to perform roughly the same on the street (given a low amount of supporting mods) where I have been able to view data. There have been some data published showing vast superiority of these turbos in flow testing and dynos but I cant see that this has translated on to the street at least at a level of supporting mods that the average driver is willing or able to buy and install.
4. Vince's car is a tip and he has injectors and meth. My car (6sp) ran a 7.20 when I had A28s, straight pipes, injectors, headers, and race gas. I think that Vince's car is performing at a level that is good for his level of supporting mods. I believe the tip is probably the difference between his car and my car at that level.
#35
02-21-2010, 04:38 PM
I just have not been motivated enough to drive 2 hours one way just to find a safe spot to run a few good 60-130s... that's what I get for living in the city. 
Hey guys!!
No more marks!!
IMO, there are far too many variables in the which car is faster equation to make simple statements like K24/20g>K24/18g>A28>GT-28 ect... Of course we all know these but they are easy to forget in a "discussion" ie atmospheric conditions (altitude, humidity, baro pressure, temp), road conditions, driver skill (esp 6sp) condition of car (boost leaks, worn parts, especially supporting mods, weight loss or gain, aerodynamics, pump or race tune), type of race 60-130 or quarter or standing mile. The only way to minimize (not eliminate) these variables is to run cars side by side at the same time.
I dont hold myself out as any kind of expert here but based on lookin around the boards I have hung more supporting mods on these A28s than anyone else here. I also have done significant weight loss mods. My car has slowly progressed from an 8.53s 60-130 to 6.14s all with A28s. My conclusions are as follows:
1. A28s are an excellent turbo for street (DD) cars because of their lightning quick spool.
2. Expectations have been high for these turbos but A28s require more supporting mods to be competitive (anywhere except a dyno or flow bench) than K24/18g and K24/20g.
3. Many tuners claim their version of the A28 is different than other tuners versions. In my observations, I cant say weather or not they are different, but they all seem to perform roughly the same on the street (given a low amount of supporting mods) where I have been able to view data. There have been some data published showing vast superiority of these turbos in flow testing and dynos but I cant see that this has translated on to the street at least at a level of supporting mods that the average driver is willing or able to buy and install.
4. Vince's car is a tip and he has injectors and meth. My car (6sp) ran a 7.20 when I had A28s, straight pipes, injectors, headers, and race gas. I think that Vince's car is performing at a level that is good for his level of supporting mods. I believe the tip is probably the difference between his car and my car at that level.
No more marks!!
IMO, there are far too many variables in the which car is faster equation to make simple statements like K24/20g>K24/18g>A28>GT-28 ect... Of course we all know these but they are easy to forget in a "discussion" ie atmospheric conditions (altitude, humidity, baro pressure, temp), road conditions, driver skill (esp 6sp) condition of car (boost leaks, worn parts, especially supporting mods, weight loss or gain, aerodynamics, pump or race tune), type of race 60-130 or quarter or standing mile. The only way to minimize (not eliminate) these variables is to run cars side by side at the same time.
I dont hold myself out as any kind of expert here but based on lookin around the boards I have hung more supporting mods on these A28s than anyone else here. I also have done significant weight loss mods. My car has slowly progressed from an 8.53s 60-130 to 6.14s all with A28s. My conclusions are as follows:
1. A28s are an excellent turbo for street (DD) cars because of their lightning quick spool.
2. Expectations have been high for these turbos but A28s require more supporting mods to be competitive (anywhere except a dyno or flow bench) than K24/18g and K24/20g.
3. Many tuners claim their version of the A28 is different than other tuners versions. In my observations, I cant say weather or not they are different, but they all seem to perform roughly the same on the street (given a low amount of supporting mods) where I have been able to view data. There have been some data published showing vast superiority of these turbos in flow testing and dynos but I cant see that this has translated on to the street at least at a level of supporting mods that the average driver is willing or able to buy and install.
4. Vince's car is a tip and he has injectors and meth. My car (6sp) ran a 7.20 when I had A28s, straight pipes, injectors, headers, and race gas. I think that Vince's car is performing at a level that is good for his level of supporting mods. I believe the tip is probably the difference between his car and my car at that level.
I am still waiting for those AMS inlet pipes to hit the market.
#36
02-21-2010, 04:43 PM
-Todd, you nailed it. I bought A28s on those facts. Based on many posts as it is modern technology, 10y apart, Way... more flow and Way... more efficiency.
So if everything is equal as moderate tune, it should give noticable outcome. What does it miss here?
-I still run-in clutch, have not tried full boost yet. I am happy with quick response. But is top end hp not up to par as quoted?
So if everything is equal as moderate tune, it should give noticable outcome. What does it miss here?
-I still run-in clutch, have not tried full boost yet. I am happy with quick response. But is top end hp not up to par as quoted?
#37
02-21-2010, 04:48 PM
-Todd, you nailed it. I bought A28s on those facts. Based on many posts as it is modern technology, 10y apart, Way... more flow and Way... more efficiency.
So if everything is equal as moderate tune, it should give noticable outcome. What does it miss here?
-I still run-in clutch, have not tried full boost yet. I am happy with quick response. But is top end hp not up to par as quoted?
So if everything is equal as moderate tune, it should give noticable outcome. What does it miss here?
-I still run-in clutch, have not tried full boost yet. I am happy with quick response. But is top end hp not up to par as quoted?
#39
02-21-2010, 04:51 PM
Both turbos on otherwise stock systems suffer from the same restrictions so I dunno...
#41
02-21-2010, 04:55 PM
How about this then... does it make sense that we deduce that the a plethora of supporting mods are even MORE necessary with the A28 than the 24/18 to see the significant advantage? I don't know if it's true, but I'm throwing it out there?
Both turbos on otherwise stock systems suffer from the same restrictions so I dunno...
Both turbos on otherwise stock systems suffer from the same restrictions so I dunno...
I think there are many restrictions in the stock system, but my car runs as good as anyones and I have the least amount of mods than anyone I think?
#42
02-21-2010, 04:56 PM
Seriously, these A28s do pull real well up top. But before they would do that for me I had to replace that super restrictive intake piping. Dave mentioned this mod. Its is one of the best, in my experiance, to get good performance out of these turbos.
#44
02-21-2010, 04:57 PM
How about this then... does it make sense that we deduce that the a plethora of supporting mods are even MORE necessary with the A28 than the 24/18 to see the significant advantage? I don't know if it's true, but I'm throwing it out there?
Both turbos on otherwise stock systems suffer from the same restrictions so I dunno...
Both turbos on otherwise stock systems suffer from the same restrictions so I dunno...
Dave, Mike Bailey will attest to that. Compare his 6.14 to TTboosts 5.99. TTBoost has meth, 18's and an exhaust. Both cars are lightened.
Bailey has Tial A28s + 75mm Throttle Body, IPD Plenum, EVOMS Stage 4 XR Clutch, Clubsport Headers, Pulley, & ICs. BBI Plasma Coil Packs, GT-3 CF Sport Seats, HRE C93, PSS10, Girodisc Rotors, B&M SSK.
#45
02-21-2010, 04:58 PM
This is #1 priority on my mod list right now.