Need some help guys...

I'm closing in fast on picking up a 2002 996tt with 28,800 miles. Carfax and autocheck are clean, this is a 2 owner car and the current owner only had it for 2k miles and the Porsche database has zero records of any service at all (which also means no claims under warranty too, so the car has never had problems under warranty). I'm still trying to get service history, and realize the 30k service is coming up immently ($1100 cost at Porsche?), but otherwise everything looks good....

Car is on consignment with the dealer, so the owner is still driving it, but barely once per week. I think he's an older Dr. They were asking a little over $55k originally, and my first tenative offer pending a good independant porsche inspection and test drive (car is 500 miles away from me) was $48k. They said the owner accepted $48k if I pay the dealer's commission of $1.5k, for $49.5k WITHOUT the current third party warranty, or $52.5k with warranty....

The current owner bought a third party warranty for $4,000, 8 months ago that has 2 years 4 months left, or up to 75,000 miles on the car. Right now, I know the warranty covers engine, transmission, turbos (they are getting back to me on what else exactly it covers); has a $100 deductible, will pay up to $120 per hour for labor, and can be used at any Porsche dealership in the country. I do think I could get this car with the warranty out the door for for $2k extra, for ~$51.5k, since that is all they can get a lopsided "prorated" refund for its value, OR ~$49,000 without the warranty. $2.5k is really not a lot of extra $$ for piece of mind for a little over two years, so am I foolish to pass on getting the warranty? The only mod I really want to try out on the car (besides 997tt wheels) is perhaps Fabspeed/generic muffler bypass pipes, which shouldn't affect warranty, right? Suggestions?

Any other comments, or things to look for during my test drive of this car? (Actually, I'll put a deposit on it to lock the deal, but cant' pick it up for 3-4 weeks from now, since its 500 miles away and my schedule won't allow it until then. I expect negotiations to take at least another week, including trying to dig up service records, and some time for the independant inspection too, but I'll probably do that myself when i test drive the car).

BTW, I need triptronic b/c I"m 6'6'' tall and dont' have room to work a clutch, so keep in mind that inventory of triptronics is much lower than manuals and prices seem to be higher for them, hardly anything in the 40's for clean carfax low miles cars like this, unfortunately.

 

Asking them "what is covered" is insane. DEMAND A COPY OF THE POLICY. Anything else is foolish. There are a few posts about "extended warranty" recently. You MUST read the policy with an eye towards interpreting it as narrowly and unfavorably to you as possible. THEN make the decision.

The "Older Doctor" is laughable. It is, I guess, the porsche equivalent of the little old lady driving to church.

They are playing you well- accepting the offer, but then creating two additional choices. I'd simply refuse to play that game. The offered it with the warranty, they never talked about a commission. It is too late to be dropping those onto the deal.

I'd make it clear there will be no ala carte pricing. Tell them the offer was 48 all in, warranty included I'd have been a bit firm. Remember if you come up at all right away you are moving the wrong way. Then, after they respond to your refusal, perhaps one last counter. Pick your last number.


ANY MODS will technically affect the warranty. READ THE POLICY. They can make an argument that reduced back pressure allows the turbos to spool faster, increasing boost and power- and THAT is the cause of your failure! If you do get the warranty, don't do any mods for a while, see how it goes, then mod with your eyes open.

If they've missed services based on time, hammer them on those costs. (Oil every year as I recall- lack of those records, 'major concern in my mind')

DO NOT take it to the dealer for the 30k service.

YOU are doing the inspection yourself? Then you must be a qualified porsche factory tech, in which case why worry about a 30k service? Point is you need an independent PPI from a qualified mechanic. NOT the dealer you are buying it from. (Is this a P dealer or used car lot?)

Remember, everything they tell you- every discussion, every email- EVERYTHING can be a total lie designed to make you buy- and you will sign a document that says "I didn't rely on anything that was said or given to me other than this purchase agreement".

Finally if you cannot fit in the car to operate a clutch, I'd find a different car!

Good Luck

A

PS Remember the dealer is working for the seller- everything they do is designed to take money from you- play it very negative with them, doubts, etc, etc and tif they feel you will walk they will tell the good doctor. You can also create a stalking horse- "I'm going to XYZ to look at another car, and I want to either buy this one or pass on it before I have to buy the ticket. They're gaming you, you game them...

 

Very helpful, thanks ard.

Let me provide some more details:

1. I didn't mean "I" am doing the inspection, I meant I'm taking it to a Porsche dealership to have it done. This car is on consignment with used exotic dealership, not a Porsche dealer. The owner still has possession of the car. The current mileage is 28,800, which considering this car has been listed for about 7 months which advertises 27,100 miles, is a big change.

2. They are in the processs of faxing/scanning me a copy of the warranty. The info I posted was just his quick email. Technically, I'll be an attorney in about 3 weeks (anxious for graduation), so I do have a fair idea about contract interpretation. Your points here are quite valid, and I'm very skeptical about how honest any third party warranty will come through. That's why I asked about the muffler bypass. This will be my second car (I'm keeping my 04 G35 coupe), and I do want to tinker with a couple mods, but am satisifed with just the exhaust and 997tt wheels if that's safe. Still, I can also see a "your mod reduced backpressure which messed with the turbo and injection timing, ect, so we won't pay." If this was an Aston Martin like I started looking at, I'd take the the warranty, do no mods, and hopefully be covered. But that's why I'm getting the 996tt, for the reliability, performance, style, and fun driving.

3. They didn't actually say he was an "old Dr.", lol, but I can tell from the carfax that they are serious that he's had the car for barely over a year and has only driving it about 3k miles.

4. If I didn't buy a car that I didn't have space to work a clutch, I sadly would have a hard time buying any exotic at all. My shoes are size 14, and that creates a issue with narrow pedal configurations too. I'm actually do like paddle shifters if they work right (unlike in the Vantage). The triptronic is fine, smooth, just slow shifting compared to thier 2009 dual clutch PDK system. It annoys me that with buttons I can't shift in turns, and when stopping it only automatically downshifts to 2nd gear and I have to push down to make it go to first, but these are minor complaints. I've never owned a manual.

Right now, I'm digging for info about (1) tire tread, breaks/rotors (2) waiting for the warranty scan to come (3) and digging to try to find service history. My guess is that after this comes, my next offer will be $47,000 with the warranty (then hold the phone to a clock so they can hear the "tick tock, tick tock!"). Maybe that will make thing think twice about another counter...j/k...I don't think the owner is too rushed to sell, considering they'd never dropped the asking price from $55k in 7 months he's had it listed. But, I will say that lack of service history on a high performance car like this is very troubling, the added 1,700 miles that have been put on the car from what your website lists the car with is a significant difference, and the 30k scheduled service is coming up right away that effectively adds another $1k to the purchase price for me, or as a cost to the owner if he keeps it. I'll keep thinking for more ammo here, let me know if you have additional comments.

Much thanks.

 

I would definitely recommend the warranty. Also, you should check your local porsche dealer where you would be taking the car for repairs, explain to them you are looking at a potential purchase and ask them about the quality of the current warranty. They will be very courteous because they would love to have your potential service patronage.

Word of Caution: The fact that the car has no service database entry would be a red flag to me, because at a minimum it should have dealer service maintenance records of some kind. That combined with the fact the overall car has low miles, 2 owners, and the current owner is selling after one year of ownership and only driving 2-3K miles can be a signal of a lemon. I am not saying it is, but don't take the low miles as a sign of a great car take a look at the complete picture.

 

Keep in mind that the Porsche dealer network is still operating on 17th century standards. In other words, you can't just go into ANY Porsche dealership with the VIN in hand and get service records, outside of any recall-related work that has been done. You have to go to the ACTUAL dealership where the work was performed to get a copy of the records.

There are a ton of cars for sale - make a good offer and then walk away if they play some more games with you. I bought my 2001 without a warranty and don't lose any sleep at all over it. After a strong PPI and a talk with the owner, I was satisfied with the condition of the car enough to make a one time offer and get the deal done. However, I took into account any services that were due (oil change, tires, etc) and subtracted those from my offer price, as the seller should have already incurred those costs anyway. I have zero patience for jerking around with a bunch of lying salesmen who know less than I do about the car I want to buy.

Good luck in your search - remember, there are always other cars to look at if this one doesn't pan out.

 

Probem is, there are tons of MANUAL 996tts available, in mid $40's with 30-45k miles, but only 2 or 3 triptronics availalbe at all in black.

Alright, so dealer is 100% unable to come up with any service records (car has 28.8k miles currently). Dealer bought it and sold it to current owner at about 25k miles and claims to have changed oil then, but still, there are no records of this, just his word. Current owner has done absolutely nothing to it in the sub 1 year he's had it, and barely put on 3-4k miles. This is pretty stunning, that they are acting like its not a big deal for a 996tt with 28.8k miles to come with zero service history documention. In my mind, the existing warranty with 2.2 years remaining makes up for this, but does not add value anymore to the price.

Dealer is still in process of getting the warranty faxed to me (my fax is broken, so he's trying to scan it). I need to verify that aftermarket exhausts and perhaps muffler bypass tinkering won't void it.

Edit: Brakes at 60%, front tires 70%, and rear tires 40% according to the owner, not yet verified by the dealer.

Once that is sorted, my offer is likely going to be $48k with the warranty, firm. I'll give them a week to accept it before I make offers elseware. I think photos of this car look perfect, and 28.8k miles is REALLY low for a 2002 996tt, but its not a dealer sale with new tires/breaks/fluids, its on consignment with the owner still driving it with non of this and no service history, so in my mind, KBB private party values should attach, and that says $44k is fair. It also needs the 30k service that should cost $1k (although I'm planning on having the spark plugs replaced during PPI when they do compression check for parts pricing only, then I'll do the rest of the service with my dad who knows what he's doing so it'll hardly cost anything for just fluids and checks).

The real problem here is that the triptronics are just so damn rare, especially in black, that my selection is so limited. I'll try to use all the manuals priced in the mid forties to help, but the fact is right now there are only 2 or 3 triptronics in black with low miles that are available at all. Still, I'm not really in a rush here, and eventually something will pop up in triptronic that can be negotiated to a price closer to the group of lower priced manuals.

Still, I do think $48k with 2.2 years remaining warranty is a good price for a 2002 triptronic with 28.8k miles in black. Or should I offer lower? Remember, they were asking $55k, and I mentioned $50k with warranty before (but that was before learning no service history and that car has 28.8k miles, not 27.1k miles like advertised, so now I'm going to $48k with warranty). Comments? Thoughts?

 

I hear you on being rare for the tiprtronic, but I don't think that has a factor in price other than the opposite of what you are hoping. Typically (no pun intended), the tiptronic is a depreciation in the actual value of the car. When I was doing my search, Tips came up much less expensive.

 

Get the warranty in case you are later faced with the 2nd gear synchro pop-out problem with the transmission. I have a 2001 with warranty and the insurance covered the synchro problem. In today's market you should be able to pick this up for $48k including warranty.

 

Unless I really have a much worse case of AAD than I thought, the OP is looking at a TIP? This is entirely possible even after re-reading the post in which case, feel free to laugh at me!

 

Yes, I need triptronic.

What's the cost I can claim for new breaks and new tires on the 996tt for further price negotiating power? (although I'll be upgrading to 19' 997tt rims, they don't need to know this and I'd still prefer new tires on the old rims to increase thier resale value).

KBB for this car in private party listing in good shape is $43,370. Wonder what they would say if I offered them that, plus $2k for the warranty for $45,370 firm now that these details about service history/tires/breaks/30k service have surfaced. Again, there are no triptronics in black anywhere near that price, however.

 

I recently went through the same thing. Got a ym 2003 TT X-50, black, tip, very loaded. 24k miles, $50k w/2 yr warranty. Was driven for the last 7 years by a lil old lady to church. Well, that may not be entirely true but the salesman said it was bought and driven since new by a lady. Carfax verified the one owner and my mechanic said it looked like it was driven by a lady as it is in excellent condition. Finger nail scratches on the interior by the door handle further verifies the woman driver.

Ask your mechanic about your warranty once you get a copy of it. I did not know what I was getting as far as warranty and got lucky. My mechanic, who works with the insurance/warranty companies all the time said I got a good one but that some of them are not worth cr@p. The all have outs in them. He said it has to do with how hard they pursue their outs.

 

Good luck- sounds like you are handling them well. Keep in mi.nd that sometimes the warranty policy may require proof that the required maintenance was done! The warranty is nice, but don't rely on it.

The lack of records is always troubling- for me it belies owners that don't care. Do the PPI in two 'stages' - if it checks out initially, THEN go forward with the compression/plugs.

Finally, the warranty needs to be the actual policy- not an 'application' and not a 'summary'.


Good Luck

A

 

I'd probably cap my offer at $45k with the warranty. Why would you offer more than private party? No records stinks, and tips sell for less than 6 speeds.

Figure $1600 to replace with PS2s, and maybe $400 for brakes. That's $2k right there.

Don't settle - if it doesn't feel right, walk away. A few grand less to compensate for no maintenance records can come back to bite you hard.

 

Thanks for sharing, sounds like you got a great deal. I would love to get a x50, but I thought Porsche only put the x50 package on manuals, not triptronics? Am I wrong on this, I know I've read it a couple different places?

Edit: Guess it is possible, but I'm never going to find one.

 

X50 was available in TIP.

As far as 6spd vs TIP prices, I haven't seen much difference. Interior color and mileage affect pricing the most. I guess not many people find a 100% lipstick red interior appealing.

JH