K-Sport coilovers for 996TT
#47
06-03-2010, 05:53 AM
in for the pics and initial road review, acute performance please go beat the car up for a little and let us know how it feels
#48
06-03-2010, 08:57 AM
#49
06-03-2010, 10:22 AM
Here's a little secret when it comes to suspensions.
When you buy cheap dampers you get the worst of both worlds! meaning you get crap ride quality (harshness) and poor track performance. Why would anyone want to do this is beyond me. I've done back to back tests a long time ago with high end coil overs (Ohlin racing dampers) and a low end budget coilover.
We actually ran a car on the track for a bunch of laps and watched the rear suspension and what it was doing. BTW we had Mark Daddio (Multi-national SCCA champion) at the time testing the car. We then switched just the rear dampers and kept alignment and spring rate the same. The high end damper let the suspension work, it handled high rate bump correctly, kept the tire on the pavement consistently, which equated to faster lap times and much better driver feel.
We then put the whole high end suspension on the car and we could go way up on spring rate and get the car to handle very well on track and it rode much nicer on the street than the cheap dampers.
It all comes down to damper valving. Who cares how much adjust-ability it has when it's all crap? To really see what is going on with a damper you need to see shock-dyno charts. The perception of 'feeling good' on the street is very misleading, most people thing that a stiff ride means 'good' as far as suspension goes, because stiff means it will handle better, not true at all.
I wont' even sell cheap dampers in my shop to anyone, I don't want to see someone waste their money and reduce the quality of their automotive experience. If all you're going for is a lowered look, get some lowering springs. If you want good dampers, save your money and get any good quality higher end damper for your applications (street/club or pure race); JRZ, Ohlin, KW, Moton, Dynamic Suspension, etc.
I'll step off my soap box now..
-Martin
When you buy cheap dampers you get the worst of both worlds! meaning you get crap ride quality (harshness) and poor track performance. Why would anyone want to do this is beyond me. I've done back to back tests a long time ago with high end coil overs (Ohlin racing dampers) and a low end budget coilover.
We actually ran a car on the track for a bunch of laps and watched the rear suspension and what it was doing. BTW we had Mark Daddio (Multi-national SCCA champion) at the time testing the car. We then switched just the rear dampers and kept alignment and spring rate the same. The high end damper let the suspension work, it handled high rate bump correctly, kept the tire on the pavement consistently, which equated to faster lap times and much better driver feel.
We then put the whole high end suspension on the car and we could go way up on spring rate and get the car to handle very well on track and it rode much nicer on the street than the cheap dampers.
It all comes down to damper valving. Who cares how much adjust-ability it has when it's all crap? To really see what is going on with a damper you need to see shock-dyno charts. The perception of 'feeling good' on the street is very misleading, most people thing that a stiff ride means 'good' as far as suspension goes, because stiff means it will handle better, not true at all.
I wont' even sell cheap dampers in my shop to anyone, I don't want to see someone waste their money and reduce the quality of their automotive experience. If all you're going for is a lowered look, get some lowering springs. If you want good dampers, save your money and get any good quality higher end damper for your applications (street/club or pure race); JRZ, Ohlin, KW, Moton, Dynamic Suspension, etc.
I'll step off my soap box now..
-Martin
#50
06-03-2010, 11:10 AM
Hi Martin,
Well said and very true. Let me ask you this question, what happens to the folks that don't really track but want a stiffer, lower car?
These coilovers are NOT for the hardcore tracker I will be very upfront about that. These are great for the occasional tracker maybe once a couple months.
You suggest lowering springs. These paired with OE shocks you get a horrible ride. Then if you want to put the OE springs back, you've got bump stops that have been cut.
Bottom line, the coilovers you mentioned are very expensive and not geared towards everyone. I'm just trying to provide a product that I know is good quality and suited for daily driving/occasional track use.
Michael
Acute Performance
Well said and very true. Let me ask you this question, what happens to the folks that don't really track but want a stiffer, lower car?
These coilovers are NOT for the hardcore tracker I will be very upfront about that. These are great for the occasional tracker maybe once a couple months.
You suggest lowering springs. These paired with OE shocks you get a horrible ride. Then if you want to put the OE springs back, you've got bump stops that have been cut.
Bottom line, the coilovers you mentioned are very expensive and not geared towards everyone. I'm just trying to provide a product that I know is good quality and suited for daily driving/occasional track use.
Michael
Acute Performance
Here's a little secret when it comes to suspensions.
When you buy cheap dampers you get the worst of both worlds! meaning you get crap ride quality (harshness) and poor track performance. Why would anyone want to do this is beyond me. I've done back to back tests a long time ago with high end coil overs (Ohlin racing dampers) and a low end budget coilover.
We actually ran a car on the track for a bunch of laps and watched the rear suspension and what it was doing. BTW we had Mark Daddio (Multi-national SCCA champion) at the time testing the car. We then switched just the rear dampers and kept alignment and spring rate the same. The high end damper let the suspension work, it handled high rate bump correctly, kept the tire on the pavement consistently, which equated to faster lap times and much better driver feel.
We then put the whole high end suspension on the car and we could go way up on spring rate and get the car to handle very well on track and it rode much nicer on the street than the cheap dampers.
It all comes down to damper valving. Who cares how much adjust-ability it has when it's all crap? To really see what is going on with a damper you need to see shock-dyno charts. The perception of 'feeling good' on the street is very misleading, most people thing that a stiff ride means 'good' as far as suspension goes, because stiff means it will handle better, not true at all.
I wont' even sell cheap dampers in my shop to anyone, I don't want to see someone waste their money and reduce the quality of their automotive experience. If all you're going for is a lowered look, get some lowering springs. If you want good dampers, save your money and get any good quality higher end damper for your applications (street/club or pure race); JRZ, Ohlin, KW, Moton, Dynamic Suspension, etc.
I'll step off my soap box now..
-Martin
When you buy cheap dampers you get the worst of both worlds! meaning you get crap ride quality (harshness) and poor track performance. Why would anyone want to do this is beyond me. I've done back to back tests a long time ago with high end coil overs (Ohlin racing dampers) and a low end budget coilover.
We actually ran a car on the track for a bunch of laps and watched the rear suspension and what it was doing. BTW we had Mark Daddio (Multi-national SCCA champion) at the time testing the car. We then switched just the rear dampers and kept alignment and spring rate the same. The high end damper let the suspension work, it handled high rate bump correctly, kept the tire on the pavement consistently, which equated to faster lap times and much better driver feel.
We then put the whole high end suspension on the car and we could go way up on spring rate and get the car to handle very well on track and it rode much nicer on the street than the cheap dampers.
It all comes down to damper valving. Who cares how much adjust-ability it has when it's all crap? To really see what is going on with a damper you need to see shock-dyno charts. The perception of 'feeling good' on the street is very misleading, most people thing that a stiff ride means 'good' as far as suspension goes, because stiff means it will handle better, not true at all.
I wont' even sell cheap dampers in my shop to anyone, I don't want to see someone waste their money and reduce the quality of their automotive experience. If all you're going for is a lowered look, get some lowering springs. If you want good dampers, save your money and get any good quality higher end damper for your applications (street/club or pure race); JRZ, Ohlin, KW, Moton, Dynamic Suspension, etc.
I'll step off my soap box now..
-Martin
Last edited by acuteperformance; 06-03-2010 at 11:25 AM.
#51
06-03-2010, 11:31 AM
Eric,
You completely missed my point and quoted out of context.
Not everyone wants to spend $3000+ on coilovers for the sole purpose of daily driving/occasional track use.
Michael
Acute Performance
You completely missed my point and quoted out of context.
Not everyone wants to spend $3000+ on coilovers for the sole purpose of daily driving/occasional track use.Michael
Acute Performance
A high end coilover will offer a Great ride quality on the street and far superior handing on the track though. You really get the best of both worlds. Suspension myths are probably the worst in this industry and the hardest to educate on.
The problem is that at the end of the day the customer is the one that takes the hit. Like Martin said, for this reason we will ONLY sell a high end or properly engineered coilover / damper setup.
Eric
The problem is that at the end of the day the customer is the one that takes the hit. Like Martin said, for this reason we will ONLY sell a high end or properly engineered coilover / damper setup.
Eric
#52
06-03-2010, 11:53 AM
Here are some quick snapshots. As a previous poster mentioned, the fronts use helper springs like Bilstein and the rears are adjusted by shortening the shock. The fronts come w/ camber plates. Package also include end links.
They should be done later this afternoon. I am also looking to partially sponsor people. If you're interested, please PM me.
Michael
Acute Performance
They should be done later this afternoon. I am also looking to partially sponsor people. If you're interested, please PM me.
Michael
Acute Performance
#53
06-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Is their any shock dyno data on these coilovers? I couldn't any data on the Ksport website with this.
I have zero experience with Ksport, but it seems as though alot of people seem to be haunted by some of their early blown shock issues they experienced in their early designs. This was supposed to be fixed, but like I said I have not tried them and don't know. I am torn on these though because I have looked into them in the past on the B5 S4s and couldn't find anyone that has run them recently enough to tell if they were an improvement. But yet everyone knows they are crap. I am not doubting that these may be garbage, but you can't always tell by the price tag. If tests and shock dynos show that these are not a good setup and are poor quality than that is that.
I have zero experience with Ksport, but it seems as though alot of people seem to be haunted by some of their early blown shock issues they experienced in their early designs. This was supposed to be fixed, but like I said I have not tried them and don't know. I am torn on these though because I have looked into them in the past on the B5 S4s and couldn't find anyone that has run them recently enough to tell if they were an improvement. But yet everyone knows they are crap. I am not doubting that these may be garbage, but you can't always tell by the price tag. If tests and shock dynos show that these are not a good setup and are poor quality than that is that.
#54
06-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Hi,
Yes their early models had issues. They have since revamped their setup and haven't had issues for over 3 yrs. I will talk to the KSport engineers about getting a shock dyno graph.
Michael
Acute Performance
Yes their early models had issues. They have since revamped their setup and haven't had issues for over 3 yrs. I will talk to the KSport engineers about getting a shock dyno graph.
Michael
Acute Performance
Is their any shock dyno data on these coilovers? I couldn't any data on the Ksport website with this.
I have zero experience with Ksport, but it seems as though alot of people seem to be haunted by some of their early blown shock issues they experienced in their early designs. This was supposed to be fixed, but like I said I have not tried them and don't know. I am torn on these though because I have looked into them in the past on the B5 S4s and couldn't find anyone that has run them recently enough to tell if they were an improvement. But yet everyone knows they are crap. I am not doubting that these may be garbage, but you can't always tell by the price tag. If tests and shock dynos show that these are not a good setup and are poor quality than that is that.
I have zero experience with Ksport, but it seems as though alot of people seem to be haunted by some of their early blown shock issues they experienced in their early designs. This was supposed to be fixed, but like I said I have not tried them and don't know. I am torn on these though because I have looked into them in the past on the B5 S4s and couldn't find anyone that has run them recently enough to tell if they were an improvement. But yet everyone knows they are crap. I am not doubting that these may be garbage, but you can't always tell by the price tag. If tests and shock dynos show that these are not a good setup and are poor quality than that is that.
#55
06-03-2010, 03:07 PM
+1 on AMS a friend had it in his turbo, after a couple of months it started leaking i mean really leaking. they look good but they cant match the higher $$ coilovers. u get what u paid for (in this case its for real) oh btw the two collars to tighten up the springs get stuck after it got dirty cause they are made too thin n to unprecise (loose). lesson learned the hard way
#56
06-03-2010, 03:10 PM
blasted! ksport sent me the wrong part # instead of the turbo version they sent me the 996 C2. now i have to wait until next week.
anyone with a 996 C2 want to test for me? i'll give at a great price.
michael
acute performance
anyone with a 996 C2 want to test for me? i'll give at a great price.
michael
acute performance
#57
06-03-2010, 06:39 PM
+1 on AMS a friend had it in his turbo, after a couple of months it started leaking i mean really leaking. they look good but they cant match the higher $$ coilovers. u get what u paid for (in this case its for real) oh btw the two collars to tighten up the springs get stuck after it got dirty cause they are made too thin n to unprecise (loose). lesson learned the hard way
#58
06-03-2010, 06:41 PM
i'm pretty sure it is. also, any coilovers that get dirt/oil/grime on the threads are going to have issues adjusting height afterwards. that's just how things are. people need to realize coilovers aren't stock suspension set it and forget it parts. you need to clean them ever so often and lube them up with silicon.
michael
acute performance
michael
acute performance
#60
06-04-2010, 02:25 AM
i'm pretty sure it is. also, any coilovers that get dirt/oil/grime on the threads are going to have issues adjusting height afterwards. that's just how things are. people need to realize coilovers aren't stock suspension set it and forget it parts. you need to clean them ever so often and lube them up with silicon.
michael
acute performance
michael
acute performance