Let me get this right....

A stiffer mount causes the frequencies output by the engine itself to change? I can believe that more potential frequencies are transferred TO the knock sensor, causing timing to pull(triggering a knock condition), but I really find it a bit difficult to believe that a couple of mounts can suppress a knock sensor's sensitivity enough to cause engine damage. It's not really how a knock sensor works. In the ecm, there should be a frequency filter to only choose the range that porsche suggests as knock.

Justin

 

While I agree with your statement that things of this nature should be reviewed on a case by case basis... The large cross section of cars that I have tuned with wevo mounts again makes me comfortably able to say they are not causing this issue.

At the end of the day, I would want to know what data is being measured to determine this is the cause of the problem. Without being able to write your own data acquisition tools, you cant even log actual knock sensor activity through the dme.

How was it determined that stiffer mounts are causing a frequency change across the block? In reality, it would most likely cause MORE "false" knock, thus causing MORE timing retard... Leading to low power output, not engine damage.

 

lol.... Tony, you just said the same thing I did

Either Great Minds think alike or we're just tools

Justin

 

=)... i didnt see your response until after I posted mine.

 

Tony, do you and Todd get along?... why don't you give him a call?... it would be good to see the Tuners actually communicating with each other!!!

 

Tony,

That is why I would need more info. I don't know what the problem is? Is it false knock or an issue where there is motor damage occurring because a new frequency undetectable knock is occurring? Or something else?

 

Justin,

The OME knock sensors are set to listen for certain frequencies. When certain modifications are made to the motor they change the frequencies where damaging knock may occur. This would not be a mount issue.

Now, if any body part on the car made a noise in the knock frequency and this noise was prior filtered by the OME mounts, this could cause an issue. I gave as an example some tranny mounts that transferred previously un head noises.

Like I previously stated, more info is needed. I believe it would be great for someone to hunt this down.

This may help: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post2678928 It was written by Neil Harvey. PD and Link are currently designing our knock system because because the OME system will not safely protect the motor mods we are utilizing.

 

Correct, but what I was eluding to is the fact that I HIGHLY doubt motor mounts would dampen any frequency internally in the engine. The sensors are attached directly, and short of some electrical interference really would not be affected by too much external noise or even an opposite frequency for that matter.

Now a given is that for every frequency there is an opposite frequency that will cancel it out; however, again I doubt changing the motor mounts would create the frequency needed to completely X out knock.

I'll give you an example. We routinely run solid engine mounts in race type vehicles... Although the LEVEL(volume/sensitivity) can change(typically higher on the voltage scale), the frequency of even a built engine remains about the same. Let's call it between 4 and 16khz.... Usually it's fairly "easy" to dial in from a tuning standpoint(it's kinda what I do ) Frequency change, harmonics, and resonance from changing the engine design(stroker, overbore, loose pistons, etc) will likely still fall easily in range of what the knock sensor is capable of picking up. Tony would be best able to comment on the Porsche specific platform, but I doubt that Porsche reengineered how a knock sensor works(leave that to saab and BMW - with ion sensing, preemptive knock )

Justin

 

just my 0.02 but i think you should wait until you confirm exactly what the problem is before making threads which could ruin a companies name/product

 

Justin,

In my way of thinking I would be hard press to explain the problem as mounts, but why take a chance when it can be troubleshoot. It could be a coincidence that Protomotive has had a few motors that when these mounts have been added the issues surface. You will note how Neil says issues usually surface after initial tune is done.

The best sensing in my opinion is monitoring individual cylinder pressures and tying in data accordingly.

 

You have a point. On the other hand do you realize how many motors out there have been destroyed because this industry basically learns on our dime?

I have also had some experience with WEVO. As I stated they have many great parts however when we basically partnered prototyped the Tilton into the 996tt with them and S Car Go Racing I was left to fend somewhat for myself when issues arose.

 

i know, it annoys the hell out of me but i think we need to do due diligence before making threads that could possibly ruin a companies reputation/someones livelihood/peoples jobs

jusy playing devils advocate here

i was about to buy the wevos and am now thinking twice...hopefully with good cause and not just because someone jumped to conclusions

 

These exact mounts + 997TT tranny is going into my GT800 as we speak, may not exactly. Car has been running flawless, so I will report back my case as soon as I get my car back.

Regards,
-Arman

 

buzzm,

I don't look at it as an issue. It could be a WEVO part. It could be a Protomotive tune. It could be something else.

I believe when an issue surfaces it needs to be explored and caution taken until something resolves. It is better to be safe than sorry. This industry is known for finger pointing when sh*t hits the fan.

I feel far more comfortable with people who you are working with, when faced with an issue, take the position of "let's look at this and figure it out", rather than get defensive right off the bat.

 

Buzzm... can I make something very, very clear, NOBODY is attempting to (as you put it) "Ruin a companies reputation/someones livelihood/peoples jobs"

I approached Hayden to chat about the situation and what Todd reported back to me, Haydens reply was just negative and very defensive... I am more than happy to show anyone the email correspondence.

If these mounts are causing an issue, would you rather I not say anything about it and let other members know.

I have actually had a couple of pm's stating that a few 997 GT3's are running these particular mounts with Black Pillows and have no issues, now that sounds all good, but what really gets my back up, is how come Hayden clearly states to me that I should not be using them on 996/997 application.

Good enough to take my money knowing fine well they were being used for a 996.