Uh huh

 

Colin,

You presented a lot of questions. As far as I know it is all rumors. I have seen no hard documentation regarding the Upsolute or the GIAC ecu. As far as I know they both do the job. They both pass the smog test and I know of no instances where either has damaged a 996tt motor.

I know nothing about Upsolute other than reports from forum members and their website. I know the same about GIAC with one additional first hand experience. I do know GIAC feels threatened about my progress as demonstrated in a past incident. If they are really as good as a few people seem to believe then there is no reason for them to feel threatened or insecure by a single individual who doesn't even sell ecu's.

If GIAC is really "The Wizzard of Oz" behind federalizing the 959, why is he still having problems delivering their program for the Stage V? I believe everyone knows GIAC is good, are they the only good alternative available....I don't believe so.

I have listened to the Upsolute/GIAC debate for some time now. The amazing thing is, I cannot recall an instant where anyone from Upsolute has down graded or tossed rumors about the GIAC product. Does the same true hold true regarding GIAC or some of their reps?

 

That's funny. I didn't see any GIAC tuner say anything negative about Upsolute in this thread (nor in any other past 6speed thread).

Two other interesting observations.

1. No one from Upsolute answered the question.
2. The only person making any negative comments about any one else was you...

 

racer63,

You are starting to sound like a governor we are about to terminate.

For starters: Some past statements with no back up.

1) "Upsolute runs at 14.1-1 afr"

2) "How is the cold start say at 27 degrees F on a sunny February morning."

3) "How is the throttle tip in response"

4) "Are there flat spots in the HP/TQ curve?"

5) "Does the car run lean @ wot?"

It appears doubt is being cast without any facts or back up. I do not recall any owner complaints regarding the above. When I questioned the 14.1-1 statement it was recanted. Rumors, rumors, rumors. Where's the beef????

GIAC themselves did not say anything in the above situations (they did in my situation and that is a fact), however, if you look at their public advertisements they have representatives listed. I believe you are splitting hairs on this one.

In my mind it comes down to one thing so far. A $500. chip is being provided to a certain hp/tq market. It appears to do a very good job in area's that really matter to some consumers. Now if it is really doing something that is harming the motor or causing trouble then we would all like to know about it. First hand information only....please.

 

quote from PorschePHD:

It is a completely different ECU, Development and research. Twin Turbo and TT are on two different footprints. As Colin explained it comes down to time, research and the ability to tune it. Porsche's Pepper is not near the completely in the ECU department that the TT is.

--------------------

Come on here Stephen. I fully respect you for you unselfish help to all of us here on the lists, but are you really trying to say that with the 996TT, the price difference completely has R&D? The price difference has as much to do with the fact that the 996TT costs over $120K and volume. Period. Jim Conforti known for being the best at this for the BMW scene spends quite a lot of time on his tuning and he has never charged even $500 for his programs. Just look at GIAC's own website... the price disparity between the 996TT and the others is HUGE.

I think cjv hit it on the nail... different markets cater to each.

 

CJV, Those statements were a generalized staement concerning any modification done to any car from a camaro Z-28 to a McLaren F-1, And in no way directed @ ANY Porsche chip tuner. As far as a problem delivering software no problem there, just merely taking precautions to protect our investment in the product so no one can steal it. Do you leave the keys in you 996tt with the windows open when you park it??? I think not. Same principle here. Overall the competition between chip manufacturers ultimately leads to a better product for the public. So any way you cut it it is a win/win situation for the consumer..

Colin

 

As I read it, surely these were questions, not statements, and in the light of the whole comment don't particularly require supporting 'evidence'? And quoting out of context doesn't do justice to the original post - these queries were topped and tailed by "absolute HP does not tell the whole story" and "best advice, do your research and pick the system that does best for your needs". Seems objective and reasonable - given the divided camps on the board, it's obvious that people do exactly that in any event.

CJV - I've always been pretty sceptical and queried the seemingly never-ending search for BHP, but have gained more understanding of tuning as a whole by reasoned comment from a variety of sources on this and other boards. The general concensus may be that facts speak louder than words, but I'm not sure of the value of seeing aspersions being cast in every post. Why do these threads always turn into a pissing match? From a completely unbiased perspective, it really does detract from any inherent value when the posts concerning the 'first hand information' that you mention almost always seem to have so a bullish tone. Not quite sure exactly what is being proved here.

 

Skaria,
The ECUs are not the same. Pull them and see. The work it took to make the program for the CTT was FAR less then the 996TT. Running less boost, less maps. It has nothing to do with market. The Cayenne is much different in regards to that. Pull them and see what that ECU is. As a dealer I don't get a break down of the hours that are spent or where my cost of the rights to use the software and the encrypter come from. I simply add a small margin as those in the group buy witnessed and do what I love to do. Before I ever became a dealer I spent 5300.00 for chip. It didn't bother me because it did what I wanted it to do. I was so pleased I started selling the product as it was far easier then the EFI swaps I have done before. At the time I don't think any other chip tuner was selling any program under 3K. If I recall the only real alternative I had to choose from was FVD and APR. I know what we sell works. In the 22K miles I have driven since Nov I have had no issues. I am not saying any other products have either, I just know what we sell is a piece of mind as well. Through all the climates. I do mean zero degrees and minus at times to 110 degrees this year alone! I look at the over all capability of the programmer, can they write more than K16s, K24s or beyond. I searched all boards, VW/Audi and Porsche prior to my buying. This all played a big part in my decision to spend the equivalent of a used Honda Civic.

Lastly, I know there are a few more BMWs on the road then TTs. While the TTs have grown in numbers the percentage of people that will mod them is small in comparison. So the time spent trying to develop product etc is not as easy as you think. This is why I bought my car. I orginally was going to an M800. Heck, look at Chad. He has devoted his time to development and continues to. That is one dedicated car and shop, and don't forget the owner. It is not as easy as hooking up a computer and BAMN you are there. If so then every ones uncle and brother would be doing it. The overall difference in some aspect may be different, yet not enough delta for one and certainly enough for others. Choices are great, no doubt about it.

 

Stephen,

I completely agree with you. I know tone is near impossible to convey in the written word, so just imagine me with a big on my face! I am sure the ECUs are different between the Cayenne and 996TT as with any Audi or BMW. All I am trying to say is that the bottom line is that GIAC prices are what they are because of the market and not just because of R&D, sales, etc. If no one bought the GIAC at $3500, it will have to come down no matter how much time Garrett put into it. He will still make money if he charged less, but why should he?

There is obviously a market for the GIAC because a lot of people on this board have it and there is a market for the Upsolute. I, for one, do not believe in buying depreciating assets. I lease all my cars... I am going to beat the hell out of my car and give it back to the leasing company when I am done. As such, I really cannot justify spending $3K more unless the cheaper solution put my car in jeopardy. Hence why I contacted other Upsolute owners first before getting the Upsolute. Most people on this board do not even have 20K miles on their 996TT, so there is just not enough data what the long term effects of any of these options are.

There are individuals on this board that think GIAC is the best or that Protomotive is the best, etc. That's cool... but I sincerely hope that people do not think they do it as a labor of love. They do it because they can sell it as well. Whether or not the GIAC cost $500 or $3500, I think you, EVO, PES, & AWE will just add your margin but still provide great customer support because you want customers to keep coming back.

 

SUBSEQUENT EDIT: Sorry. When I originally posted this, I didn't realize that Fozzy had already pretty much stated the same thing. So, I have now deleted mine. No sense in beating a dead horse.... unless its a Ferrari!

 

This will never end.....

 

Mansour. You are probably right. I think I will do the honorable thing and withdraw from this one. Go the way of Arnold's competition in CA...

In short,

Upsolute good.
GIAC good.
S Car Go good.

Can't we all just get along?

-Donn

 

Well I wouldn't shoot the messenger, it's not as if Stephen sets the prices. He's an enthusiast like us and sells stuff he himself feels comfortable buying.

 

Sounds like price fixing to me. I should file an anti-trust suit

-Lou

 

Ya know. I had the paperwork filled out. But, when I stepped on the gas the vortex produced by 640 HP sucked the papers right out the sunroof opening...