Evo/GIAC include stainless steel headers in their Stage 4 kit. Are headers worth it or not for a 600hp car?? I heard numerous times that Porsche's stock headers are more than adequate. However, some say that the headers help the turbos spool more quickly and give 10-15 hp. What's the real deal here??? Any techies have some technical data to back up the header claims?

TIA

Lou

 

any good tuner should tell you that aftermarket headers do not produce power... they increase flow... if that. and yes lou- ur correct- ORBIT TEAM owner (Roger) told me that stock headers are good.... just need to port and polish them.
i ported mine for free.... and polished them for $160 @ LOW LOCK IN OAK LAWN illinois. They are an authority in the chicago land area when it comes to coating.
I need to retouch the inlets a little bit more .. I wasnt sure how far to grind the welding down. But Kevin from ZC was nice enough to show me a pic.
i think even if a tuner states that headers produce 12HP.... thats nothing compared to the $1750 you have to spend on them.
Mine cost me $160.
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Lou,

At 600 hp, save your money. There is alot more to headers than simply bolting them on. The better the set, the leaner the afr's will become when they are bolted on. The leaner they get, well the more fuel you can program in which inturn makes power.

The secret to a turbo exhaust is short runs and insulation. This is why up to a limited power range the stock header is very good. A good custom header needs a thicker material, ceramic coating along with a wrap. Heat makes power and your motor exits only about 1/3 or the heat generated via the exhaust tail pipe.

Look at a stock pipe and then look at a regular header when the car is running on the dyno. You can see the difference in heat loss. Use a heat gun and you can tell exactly what you are losing. Now try the same experiment with 16 gauge ss headers which have been ceramic coated and wrapped.

The ECU still has to be tuned for the headers. Otherwise all you have is a leaner running motor.

PS, if you port your own be very careful. You don't want to just follow the gasket outline. You need to know what you are doing and why. With exhaust there is a thing called sound wave reverberation. The sound can actually travel back through your heads and valves robbing you of power.

 

call Kevin for ported/polished/ceramic coated stockers
Had a set and sold it brand new to Ken

 

Been there, done that. Don't bother. No differrence except reduced heat and probably more even exhaust flow

 

Lou,

Here is a pic.



Note the headers being used!

It is the bottom of a Manthey M700.

If the stock headers are done right, they are good to 700 hp.

 

When somone told you to port and polish the header I dont think they ment to a show car finish. They were speaking about the interior of the header. Similar to a port and polish job on the head of a car is all internal for small air flow, and to shave the rough edges.
-Daniel

 

Thanks guys, very useful. Exactly what I was looking for. At $1750 or whatever the headers cost + installation, it doesn't seem worth it?

On another note, is the GIAC stage 4 programmed to those specific headers that EVO and IA sell? If I get the stage 4 programming and skip the headers, what exactly am I losing?

Lou

 

hey lou,.... I think when they did the ecu with the headers on...but that doesnt mean that they are better. Just get them done on ur own and u will be happy.

 

Without being nosey (I'm only trying to help) perhaps I could help point you in a better "mod" direction if I knew/know exactly what you have already? Having been through the rounds and having made some good, some bad choices I could point you as to where I think that 1750 should go If I can't spend my own money it's just as much fun spending someone elses <g>

 

Stage IV can be used without headers if we know ahead of time.

 

I have an incoming Turbo S. K24 turbos obviously, I have a cargraphic super sport exhuast, bmc airfilter already. I also have a credit of $3100 for my old stage 2 giac chip. I also plan on keeping the Turbo S for probably only 1 year or until the 997 turbo comes. So, my goal is to get the most power while minimizing costs. That is why I didn't want to spend the extra $$$$ for headers and the cost associated with installing the headers. I was thinking Stage 4 programming, no headers or whatever you can think of that will use my existing K24 turbos, cargraphic exhaust and bmc airfilter. Thanks for the assistance.

Lou

 

I had level 4 without headers....works fine...
Headers supposedly improve K24 response time, i.e. reduce lag by 500 RPM

 

I would spend that money on the upgrade in programing... maybe for the 100 octane or so.. You'll get far more HP from that for the money

 

Reducing lag by 500 rpm is a big deal for autocross.

CJV, Does the ECU need to be tuned to get the reduced lag or just the coated headers will do?