Kinesis F110 wheels cracked! A must see!
#106
03-23-2011, 08:46 PM
I know some of you might think that all vendors are logged-on to 6-spd all day long, that’s not the case, fortunately we have been busy lately which is usually the reason for not being here as often. I have allowed for everyone to add wood/fuel to this fire, and I’ve listened to some make reasonable remarks and some just who just added comments without knowing everything since it would appear they just jumped in after reading the first post...
__________________________________________________ ____________
Joe was sold a set of used wheels, Joe came to the shop and was informed that these wheels had previously been damaged and he was allowed to inspect the wheels while he waited for us to mount his tires. Because we don't know the nature of the driving habits of each customer with used wheels we only offer a warranty & or sometimes even an exchange in good-faith as we did in this situation.
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Because I can't moderate who "Joe" (MrDeezy) sells to or what he tells his potential buyers it's really out of my hands if he decides to tell his buyer they are new with less than 200-miles or they are used and have previous damage to them. This is proof admitted even by Don in the following post:
"Joe" (MrDeezy) regarding his sale to "Don" (Dgreen78)
I sold Don the wheels. I admit I made a mistake, an error in judgment. He knew that they were being worked on by Wheel Dynamics.
Although i did not admit to the extend to what they were worked on.
__________________________________________________ ____________
I must add that I even offered to "transfer a 6-month warranty to "Joe" (MrDeezy)'s new buyer.
__________________________________________________ ____________
I offered a settlement to Joe’s customer based on an effort to end this whole ordeal in the amount of 2/3 of the purchased price from "Joe" (MrDeezy) regarding his sale to "Don" (Dgreen78) even though this wasn't my transaction.
I came up with 2/3 as I was never given fair opportunity to speak with "Don" (Dgreen78) prior to his weekend post. The first time I spoke with "Don" (Dgreen78) was A WEEK-DAY AFTER he had already posted and later edited his thread.
__________________________________________________ ____________
Here are the reasons why I didn't offer a 100% refund on a transaction between two parties.
1.) "Joe" (MrDeezy) : failure to provide his buyer with history of the wheels he sold to "Don" (Dgreen78).
2.) "Don" (Dgreen78) : chose to create a negative post against us our business which as has been in good standings with the Porsche community for ten years.
__________________________________________________ ____________
In closing I would like to say that due to threats of litigation from "Don" (Dgreen78) on 3/22/2011 we will limit our participation in this thread. We are also retracting our offer to "Don" as it appears he'd rather keep on point with this thread rather than to accept our offer.
Many of you know who we are and have done business with us in the past, we have organized local runs, countless meets and driving events. We are part of the Porsche community and will not go away due to an out of control thread. Almost every major company has been put on blast for the silliest of things, I was sent a message during this ordeal from a past customer and friend of mine which I guess I don’t know how to take but I will share it with your “No publicity is bad publicity”. I truly never expected we would ever get this sort of exposure but it is what it is, I can’t moderator or stop public participation.
Those of you who have had the opportunity to meet and deal with us know that this matter has a lot of grey areas. We have also repaired almost every wheel ever manufactured not only Porsche but all other makes and models. With this being said we have never had any public negative feedback for a wheel which failed under normal driving conditions. Most of the time damage can re-appear due to damages caused by imperfections in the road or even the level of HP in which a wheel is stressed. Since I've been in the business so long I've been able to see anything from a brand new wheel shattered completely from one track day to wheels completely split in two after one burn-out, I say this because there are many levels of stress which will break, crack or destroy a wheel given the right amount of stress. Of course we are in business to prosper, it's silly when some make it all about money, we'd done what we can do in all fairness given the status of the situation and hope you'll see the value in our offers made to a buyer we never sold anything to in the first place.
We will be happy to inspect this wheel and perform a run-out test to show any damage which many have occurred after leaving our facility.
Thank you again for taking the time to read our reply,
-Eli
__________________________________________________ ____________
Joe was sold a set of used wheels, Joe came to the shop and was informed that these wheels had previously been damaged and he was allowed to inspect the wheels while he waited for us to mount his tires. Because we don't know the nature of the driving habits of each customer with used wheels we only offer a warranty & or sometimes even an exchange in good-faith as we did in this situation.
__________________________________________________ ____________
Because I can't moderate who "Joe" (MrDeezy) sells to or what he tells his potential buyers it's really out of my hands if he decides to tell his buyer they are new with less than 200-miles or they are used and have previous damage to them. This is proof admitted even by Don in the following post:
"Joe" (MrDeezy) regarding his sale to "Don" (Dgreen78)
I sold Don the wheels. I admit I made a mistake, an error in judgment. He knew that they were being worked on by Wheel Dynamics.
Although i did not admit to the extend to what they were worked on.
__________________________________________________ ____________
I must add that I even offered to "transfer a 6-month warranty to "Joe" (MrDeezy)'s new buyer.
__________________________________________________ ____________
I offered a settlement to Joe’s customer based on an effort to end this whole ordeal in the amount of 2/3 of the purchased price from "Joe" (MrDeezy) regarding his sale to "Don" (Dgreen78) even though this wasn't my transaction.
I came up with 2/3 as I was never given fair opportunity to speak with "Don" (Dgreen78) prior to his weekend post. The first time I spoke with "Don" (Dgreen78) was A WEEK-DAY AFTER he had already posted and later edited his thread.
__________________________________________________ ____________
Here are the reasons why I didn't offer a 100% refund on a transaction between two parties.
1.) "Joe" (MrDeezy) : failure to provide his buyer with history of the wheels he sold to "Don" (Dgreen78).
2.) "Don" (Dgreen78) : chose to create a negative post against us our business which as has been in good standings with the Porsche community for ten years.
__________________________________________________ ____________
In closing I would like to say that due to threats of litigation from "Don" (Dgreen78) on 3/22/2011 we will limit our participation in this thread. We are also retracting our offer to "Don" as it appears he'd rather keep on point with this thread rather than to accept our offer.
Many of you know who we are and have done business with us in the past, we have organized local runs, countless meets and driving events. We are part of the Porsche community and will not go away due to an out of control thread. Almost every major company has been put on blast for the silliest of things, I was sent a message during this ordeal from a past customer and friend of mine which I guess I don’t know how to take but I will share it with your “No publicity is bad publicity”. I truly never expected we would ever get this sort of exposure but it is what it is, I can’t moderator or stop public participation.
Those of you who have had the opportunity to meet and deal with us know that this matter has a lot of grey areas. We have also repaired almost every wheel ever manufactured not only Porsche but all other makes and models. With this being said we have never had any public negative feedback for a wheel which failed under normal driving conditions. Most of the time damage can re-appear due to damages caused by imperfections in the road or even the level of HP in which a wheel is stressed. Since I've been in the business so long I've been able to see anything from a brand new wheel shattered completely from one track day to wheels completely split in two after one burn-out, I say this because there are many levels of stress which will break, crack or destroy a wheel given the right amount of stress. Of course we are in business to prosper, it's silly when some make it all about money, we'd done what we can do in all fairness given the status of the situation and hope you'll see the value in our offers made to a buyer we never sold anything to in the first place.
We will be happy to inspect this wheel and perform a run-out test to show any damage which many have occurred after leaving our facility.
Thank you again for taking the time to read our reply,
-Eli
Eli,
I offered you a fair chance to answer my question in post #66 and 87 of this thread and you did not. I suspected this thread was directly linked to these wheels.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-19x8-5-a.html
I asked you to confirm or deny and received no reply.
While this was going on, the above referenced thread was copied and was being discussed by many of the mods here on 6speed. Note, this thread was closed in November of 2010. While being discussed it was noted that you made comments about the inspection, repairs and warranty of these wheels by Fast Forward Wheels on the thread. On March 21, 2011 @ 11:33 AM (about the same time this issue was becoming a problem) someone from Wheel Dynamics edited the thread size downward by about 66%. The information about inspection, repairs and warranty by Fast Forward Wheels disappeared (WHEEL DYNAMICS IN THE POST POINTED OUT A TWO YEAR STRUCTURAL WARRANTY). To me this appeared strange and suspect. I am hoping my suspicions are wrong. I was hoping for a logical answer, but none so far has been provided. I have more information to add, however I will wait, hoping you can provide something that can put this to rest.
Again, I request you please confirm weather or not these are the same wheels in question.
Eli, here is the above post edit history. Two days ago Wheel Dynamics entered the reason for editing as N/A. Do you recall the reason for this edit four months after the thread was closed?
Post Edit History
Old New Reason for Editing User Name Time of Edit
N/A Wheel Dynamics 03-21-2011 11:33 AM
Original Post Wheel Dynamics 11-16-2010 04:09 PM
Last edited by cjv; 03-23-2011 at 09:33 PM.
#107
03-23-2011, 08:47 PM
I just read it all, OMG! Then WD comes on to try to justify selling wheels that should have never been repaired in the first place is just scary. I didnt see anywhere that "Don" created a neg post directly aimed at his buisiness? Why would WD not just refund 100% and move on? Just shows what kind of buisiness they are! Sorry its just upsetting especially if someone had been hurt.
#108
03-23-2011, 08:49 PM
These should never been sold - by you OR by Joe, after he knew the situation. Joe is culpable as well, since he was just passing the KNOWN and DANGEROUS problem off onto an unsuspecting victim. The issue here is that Joe knew what he was selling just as much as Eli did. I see Joe being as CROOKED as Eli.
You wouldn't have been able to talk to Don after these crappy wheels exploded and Don and his daughter passed away due to an overturned vehicle.
I don't know anyone that would consider this a silly thing. This statement has no merit and only shows your disrespect for others lives.
I don't know how you or Joe can live with yourselves as both of you have put other people's lives at risk. I'm disgusted with you both!
#109
03-23-2011, 08:56 PM
Wheel Dynamics, would you care to explain to the membership why you deleted from your previous posts vital information as to your role in this?
Yes I am a moderator, but I'm also a member who wants the truth to come out.
Yes I am a moderator, but I'm also a member who wants the truth to come out.
Last edited by landjet; 03-23-2011 at 09:00 PM.
#111
03-23-2011, 09:11 PM
Currently we all have suspicions. 6speed is one of the largest and most read forums in the Porsche community, in the world for that matter. The members have a reputation of being rational and waiting for all the information to come in.
I would ask everyone to give Wheel Dynamic/Fast Forward Wheels/Eli a opportunity to present their side along with answer our questions of concern.
I am truly hoping for a final resolution that will be a win/win for all.
Last edited by cjv; 03-23-2011 at 09:14 PM.
#112
03-23-2011, 09:12 PM
The wheels I bought were from that thread above posted by cjv.I remember when I saw the posting.I was excited so I called in and drove up la at 530 am the next day.Don has the original receipt with the purchase date if he wants to confirm the day purchased.
#113
03-23-2011, 09:16 PM
Amen...
#114
03-23-2011, 09:18 PM
Wow...I just spent 1 hour reading all this..cant believe it...
Only thing I will say to WD..Just as a advice..Bad publicity can be good if you do the RIGHT thing....If I were running a wheel company and this occurred, as soon i got wind of what was going on. I would of gone above and beyond..Possibly given a new set of wheels to the OP. This would of prevented this thread from continuing and you would of picked up a few customers and turned a bad publicity into a good one. Instead trying to blame some else is childish and bad business practice.
Just my 2 cents..I hope everyone involved gets this resolved and has a good outcome.
Only thing I will say to WD..Just as a advice..Bad publicity can be good if you do the RIGHT thing....If I were running a wheel company and this occurred, as soon i got wind of what was going on. I would of gone above and beyond..Possibly given a new set of wheels to the OP. This would of prevented this thread from continuing and you would of picked up a few customers and turned a bad publicity into a good one. Instead trying to blame some else is childish and bad business practice.
Just my 2 cents..I hope everyone involved gets this resolved and has a good outcome.
#115
03-23-2011, 09:21 PM
As a previous customer (new wheels and tires) of wheel dynamics / fast forward wheels, I totally agree with the posts above naming this action and reaction by WD to be totally careless...
Wheels on a porsche 911 are not like wheels on a Radio Flyer wagon. We run these cars at VERY high rates of speed with lots of pressure on the wheels on hard turns. For a vendor to knowingly sell a set of wheels that were patched like this just to make a few dollars blows my freaking mind. If this break would have occured on an turn at 100+ mph, the outcome could have been very different.
Thank god everyone is "ok" and the only damage is financial to the current owner of the wheels. The sad thing is that even if he is made completely whole, we all know that it is not because of WDs compassion, it is out of fear of losing customers. They had their chance to do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing already in private.
Wheels on a porsche 911 are not like wheels on a Radio Flyer wagon. We run these cars at VERY high rates of speed with lots of pressure on the wheels on hard turns. For a vendor to knowingly sell a set of wheels that were patched like this just to make a few dollars blows my freaking mind. If this break would have occured on an turn at 100+ mph, the outcome could have been very different.
Thank god everyone is "ok" and the only damage is financial to the current owner of the wheels. The sad thing is that even if he is made completely whole, we all know that it is not because of WDs compassion, it is out of fear of losing customers. They had their chance to do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing already in private.
#116
03-23-2011, 09:30 PM
While this was going on, the above referenced thread was copied and was being discussed by many of the mods here on 6speed. Note, this thread was closed in November of 2010. While being discussed it was noted that you made comments about the inspection, repairs and warranty of these wheels by Fast Forward Wheels on the thread. On March 21, 2011 @ 11:33 AM (about the same time this issue was becoming a problem) someone from Wheel Dynamics edited the thread size downward by about 66%. The information about inspection, repairs and warranty by Fast Forward Wheels disappeared (WHEEL DYNAMICS IN THE POST POINTED OUT A TWO YEAR STRUCTURAL WARRANTY).
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-19x8-5-a.html
This thread was open Eli's last post in November where reported the the wheels were sold. Another member noted the sale and linked the thread to this discussion. I posted it up for the moderators to evaluate. Unfortunately, I did not suspect that Wheel Dynamics would edit their thread to remove information regarding this event. On Monday, I discovered that content was removed from the post by Wheel Dynamics. I then locked the thread to prevent other changes.
Information in this thread was removed. A jpg file labeled "used_kinesis_f110.jpg" was unlinked from the post. Despite multiple attempts to retrieve the jpg file that displayed the wheels and contained information regarding the repair, I have not been successful. Wheel Dynamics has apparently moved, removed, or renamed the jpg file "used_kinesis_f110.jpg" from their server.
bob
Last edited by bbywu; 03-23-2011 at 09:34 PM.
#117
03-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Currently we all have suspicions. 6speed is one of the largest and most read forums in the Porsche community, in the world for that matter. The members have a reputation of being rational and waiting for all the information to come in.
I would ask everyone to give Wheel Dynamic/Fast Forward Wheels/Eli a opportunity to present their side along with answer our questions of concern.
I am truly hoping for a final resolution that will be a win/win for all.
I would ask everyone to give Wheel Dynamic/Fast Forward Wheels/Eli a opportunity to present their side along with answer our questions of concern.
I am truly hoping for a final resolution that will be a win/win for all.
I also believe that post like mine and others (not perhaps initially but once those involved had opportunity to share their side) are important parts of these types of forums. It shows vendors that if they choose to take the low road there will be consequences.
#118
03-23-2011, 09:43 PM
I can appreciate your stance, but I believe that enough information has been presented to concluded that what was done here was shady and dangerous. Under no circumstances should a wheel with broken spokes (forged or not) be welded and resold, especially without that information being revealed. Anyone doing so, especially a professional (supposedly) wheel shop should be ashamed.
I also believe that post like mine and others (not perhaps initially but once those involved had opportunity to share their side) are important parts of these types of forums. It shows vendors that if they choose to take the low road there will be consequences.
I also believe that post like mine and others (not perhaps initially but once those involved had opportunity to share their side) are important parts of these types of forums. It shows vendors that if they choose to take the low road there will be consequences.
I do not know if the welds cracked, if they were new cracks or what. Anyone would be guessing at this time.
What I do believe is ......... if these wheels were the ones that were on the above referenced Wheel Dynamics thread, then what was edited out implied a complete inspection was made, the wheels were repaired and a two year structural warranty was offered. The name Fast Forward Wheels was referenced by Wheel Dynamics.
I have been waiting for Eli to address this before I provide additional information. Hopefully it is resolved and it becomes a win/win ending.
Last edited by cjv; 03-23-2011 at 09:47 PM.
#119
03-23-2011, 09:48 PM
I'm sorry, but WD, are you serious? You consider this good business practice? Did you at any point look at the sheared spokes of the wheel and think, "hmm, this really shouldn't be on a car", or was it just "another day another dollar" situation for you?
Your standpoint seems to be that it's not your fault because you didn't sell the set to the final owner, you were just the repair and refinish facility, but for being a wheel dealer for over 10 years in the porsche community, you didn't think even for one second that after the second time the spokes sheared, and a different set of spokes for that matter, you guys would have notified the seller or buyer, that the wheels are unsafe to be on a vehicle, let alone a high performance vehicle.
I can understand you are trying to back up your company, but this is one of those situations where if you want to fix your reputation, you need to go above and beyond. Your attitude now is, "It's not our fault, because he didn't say what he should have said when he sold them." You guys could have directly intervened at every point during the original owner's issue with the wheels, right up until now, but you directly allowed a faulty product on the road and exchange hands multiple times while with the full knowledge that the wheels have had issues and would have issues in the future, thus your "extended warranty" offer. Do the right thing and take a loss and refund the money, you might go into the red for this set of wheels, but it won't be nearly as bad as losing money for having lost all the future transactions for wheels from people reading all this bad press and just going with another wheel vendor, who will gladly take the money that may have went to you, while offering better customer service.
Your standpoint seems to be that it's not your fault because you didn't sell the set to the final owner, you were just the repair and refinish facility, but for being a wheel dealer for over 10 years in the porsche community, you didn't think even for one second that after the second time the spokes sheared, and a different set of spokes for that matter, you guys would have notified the seller or buyer, that the wheels are unsafe to be on a vehicle, let alone a high performance vehicle.
I can understand you are trying to back up your company, but this is one of those situations where if you want to fix your reputation, you need to go above and beyond. Your attitude now is, "It's not our fault, because he didn't say what he should have said when he sold them." You guys could have directly intervened at every point during the original owner's issue with the wheels, right up until now, but you directly allowed a faulty product on the road and exchange hands multiple times while with the full knowledge that the wheels have had issues and would have issues in the future, thus your "extended warranty" offer. Do the right thing and take a loss and refund the money, you might go into the red for this set of wheels, but it won't be nearly as bad as losing money for having lost all the future transactions for wheels from people reading all this bad press and just going with another wheel vendor, who will gladly take the money that may have went to you, while offering better customer service.
#120
03-23-2011, 09:50 PM
In reference to this thread (where Joe purchased the wheels from Wheel Dynamics)
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-19x8-5-a.html
This thread was open Eli's last post in November where reported the the wheels were sold. Another member noted the sale and linked the thread to this discussion. I posted it up for the moderators to evaluate. Unfortunately, I did not suspect that Wheel Dynamics would edit their thread to remove information regarding this event. On Monday, I discovered that content was removed from the post by Wheel Dynamics. I then locked the thread to prevent other changes.
Information in this thread was removed. A jpg file labeled "used_kinesis_f110.jpg" was unlinked from the post. Despite multiple attempts to retrieve the jpg file that displayed the wheels and contained information regarding the repair, I have not been successful. Wheel Dynamics has apparently moved, removed, or renamed the jpg file "used_kinesis_f110.jpg" from their server.
bob
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-19x8-5-a.html
This thread was open Eli's last post in November where reported the the wheels were sold. Another member noted the sale and linked the thread to this discussion. I posted it up for the moderators to evaluate. Unfortunately, I did not suspect that Wheel Dynamics would edit their thread to remove information regarding this event. On Monday, I discovered that content was removed from the post by Wheel Dynamics. I then locked the thread to prevent other changes.
Information in this thread was removed. A jpg file labeled "used_kinesis_f110.jpg" was unlinked from the post. Despite multiple attempts to retrieve the jpg file that displayed the wheels and contained information regarding the repair, I have not been successful. Wheel Dynamics has apparently moved, removed, or renamed the jpg file "used_kinesis_f110.jpg" from their server.
bob
purchase date was 11/17/2010 by the way
