996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Road racing K24 tune (done last Sat on Dyno Dynamics))

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
  #1  
Old 07-24-2011 | 10:45 PM
MrWhite's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,680
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 120
MrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond repute
Road racing K24 tune (done last Sat on Dyno Dynamics))

Keep in mind Dyno Dynamics reads LOW. However a comparison to the baseline is always nice so it's in there.

All runs made on CA 91 octane pump gas. On track I will mix in 98-104 octane just to add margin / keep temps a tad cooler.

Baseline (11am in the morning, appr 76 deg F):
OEM style K24/X50 IC hardware with stock X50 tune + open exhaust BUT wastegates making 1.0-1.1 bar boost = already estimated +30 hp vs 100% stock X50. Stock X50 according to factory spec has 450hp so our baseline estimate should be in the range of 480 real crank hp.

Tuned (appr 1.30pm, appr 82 deg F):
Vs baseline Jeremy picked up on average 40-45hp peak hp keeping it safe (a little more on cooler runs which are not in the graph as he was still adjusting a few things). AFR for the finished job sits at 11.5 all the way until appr 6650 rpm then it goes to appr 11.8 until redline (7k). Remember it's for road racing so AFR should stay reasonably "cool" during long sessions living in the range between 6000-7000 rpm.

The tuned runs had quite a lot of exhaust "smoke" mixed in the air as the fans didn't get it all out between runs, that drops the numbers a little on those runs - the baseline runs were made in totally clean morning air (as clean as it gets in the valley....).

Driveability: Super smooth and tip in response after a curve is spot on as Jeremy set the throttle release AFR to keep on point to where the engine will be if the driver gets on the pedal again (ie no surge or hesistation when I hit the gas again from apex). That's a huge plus at the track, very instant response.

It probably very easy to crank out more hp for 1/4 mile stuff, but sustainability and fast/smooth response is key for road racing. Testing it out afterwards with some spirited canyon driving, the engine/throttle provides exceptional car control.

Calculation of power increase vs factory hp numbers indicate something like 450+30+45 = 525hp, compared to "real"/OEM crank hp.
(Dyno Dynamics losses in this hp range are said to be anything between 23-25% which would mean appr 535hp crank - this done in 82 deg F and lot of exhaust fumes in the dyno room. But dyno numbers are a difficult comparison).

 
Attached Images  

Last edited by MrWhite; 07-25-2011 at 09:15 AM.
  #2  
Old 07-24-2011 | 11:39 PM
Etchhead's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,445
From: San Jose, CA
Rep Power: 99
Etchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond reputeEtchhead has a reputation beyond repute
Sounds solid-
Any plans for the 18G upgrade or so you have enough with current setup?

Wouldn't mind a bit more than standard K16 but much more also requires new clutch. Maybe 16G for me.

Congrats
 
  #3  
Old 07-25-2011 | 07:32 AM
k-ore's Avatar
Banned
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,958
From: Old line state.
Rep Power: 149
k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !k-ore Is a GOD !
Subscribed
 
  #4  
Old 07-25-2011 | 07:39 AM
Mark @ AIM Performance's Avatar
Basic Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,585
From: S.Plainfield, NJ
Rep Power: 853
Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !Mark @ AIM Performance Is a GOD !
18G it
 
__________________
#TeamAIM
997TT SilverSpool - 210.8 mph 1/2 Mile WR Apr 2019, 9.2 @ 168 mph 1/4 Mile Manual World Record , 3.15 60-130 mph , 2.72 100-150 mph , 1400whp E85
996TT SpoolBus - 204.6 mph 1/2 Mile 996TT WR Aug 2018, 9.5 @ 154 mph, 3.23 60-130 mph, 2.5 100-150 mph Manual Porsche World Record, 1400whp E85
997TT SlowBerry - 205.0 mph 1/2 Mile WR Nov 2018, 9.7 @ 170 mph 1/4 Mile , 3.2 60-130 mph , 2.4 100-150 mph , 1420whp E85
ESMOTOR | DO88 | TPC DSC | SYVECS | COBB | IPD | KLINE | XONA | AMS | ID | ERP | SACHS | TURBOSMART | CSF | DODSON |
  #5  
Old 07-25-2011 | 10:01 AM
MrWhite's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,680
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 120
MrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond repute
Again the Dyno Dynamics read low.

When I put my previous K16 car on a Dynapak they always showed at least 5% higher on WHEEL than the actual number on the crank. (for example Dynapak read 445hp WHEEL hp as baseline with a stock K16 factory car, which OEM has 415hp CRANK). Tuned the same car showed 495 WHEEL on Dynapak. Calculating gain vs OEM baseline really meant 478 CRANK.

So correlating my K24 525hp OEM based gains, a Dynapak would show pretty much 550 WHEEL. Ppl would then say "12% drivetrain loss" and that my car now has 625 crank hp. That's a pretty good tune! (but also a really fake number)

As has been stated a million times on this forum and others, the hp number will depend on where you dyno the car. I personally like to compare to manufacturer baseline, even though it's lower, it's comparing to established OEM numbers which makes more sense to me. I also don't count my USD in Monopoly currency , but each to their own.

I now want to drive this K24 setup for a good while (road course). No 18G plans at this time... although I can already sense that my appetite for more power is not satiated.
 

Last edited by MrWhite; 07-25-2011 at 10:17 AM.
  #6  
Old 07-25-2011 | 10:03 AM
MrWhite's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,680
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 120
MrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Etchhead
Sounds solid-
Any plans for the 18G upgrade or so you have enough with current setup?

Wouldn't mind a bit more than standard K16 but much more also requires new clutch. Maybe 16G for me.

Congrats
Have a pair of good condition K16 if you want to send out for 16G conversion (good bearings, no play, no leak, impellers neat and no nicks or damage).
 
  #7  
Old 07-25-2011 | 10:18 AM
heavychevy's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,934
From: ga
Rep Power: 551
heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !
While I agree that Dyno Dynamics read low, that still seems a little low even for a Dyno Dynamics. What do stock K16 TT's dyno there? Has to be 29x whp?

May be good to get a trap speed on the car just to see.
 
  #8  
Old 07-25-2011 | 10:54 AM
MrWhite's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,680
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 120
MrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by heavychevy
While I agree that Dyno Dynamics read low, that still seems a little low even for a Dyno Dynamics. What do stock K16 TT's dyno there? Has to be 29x whp?

May be good to get a trap speed on the car just to see.
Yep the number spontaneously looks low. But consider a stock GTR (480hp) dynos 380 or less on a Dyno Dynamocs. A 24% loss calculated on my car means appr 540hp crank (hot air and exhaust fumes included). Compare to OEM power spec, then add the gains, it's realistic. Put the car on Fantasy dyno and I have a 625 hp K24 car.

Good to know we had a good 10hp more at the wheels on a little leaner AFR and with clean air inside the dyno.

I'll pick some 60-130 segments from when I'm data logging at the track, with weight of the car it should give some additional comparable ideas how it turned out.

Test drive example: I had zero problems hauling in a GT3 going up a fairly steep uphill, I then had a 230 lbs passenger + quite a bit of cargo in the car as well, and my good friend in the GT3 was at WOT high rpm. That kind of reeling in (it was massive) speaks of easily 100-150hp more than that 415hp GT3, so that seems to fit as well.
 

Last edited by MrWhite; 07-26-2011 at 09:53 AM.
  #9  
Old 07-25-2011 | 11:55 AM
dhahlen's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,955
From: Arizona
Rep Power: 165
dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !dhahlen Is a GOD !
Subscribed as well, good data.
 
  #10  
Old 07-25-2011 | 04:02 PM
markski@markskituning's Avatar
Basic Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,720
From: CHICAGO
Rep Power: 602
markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !
just run a P box see what it traps on the street.... Im guessing 122mph....
 
__________________

2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66
seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile
click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL




  #11  
Old 07-25-2011 | 09:33 PM
heavychevy's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,934
From: ga
Rep Power: 551
heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by MrWhite
Yep the number spontaneously looks low. But consider a stock GTR (480hp) dynos 380 or less on a Dyno Dynamocs. A 24% loss calculated on my car means appr 540hp crank (hot air and exhaust fumes included). Compare to OEM power spec, then add the gains, it's realistic. Put the car on Fantasy dyno and I have a 625 hp K24 car.

Good to know we had a good 10hp more at the wheels on a little leaner AFR and with clean air inside the dyno.

I'll pick some 60-130 segments from when I'm data logging at the track, with weight of the car it should give some additional comparable ideas how it turned out.

Test drive example: I had zero problems hauling in a GT3 going up a fairly steep uphill, I then had a 230 lbs passenger, a laptop, camera and some other cargo in the car as well, and my good friend in the GT3 was at WOT high rpm. That kind of reeling in (it was massive) speaks of easily 100-150hp more than that 415hp GT3, so that seems to fit as well.
I would guess what 8.5 or so on the 60-130?

If you trap 122 with the VBox, you are definitely good. Anything less than 120 and I would be asking some questions if I were you.
 
  #12  
Old 07-25-2011 | 10:38 PM
MrWhite's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,680
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 120
MrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by MARKSKI@911tuning
just run a P box see what it traps on the street.... Im guessing 122mph....
Wish there was a good spot in LA to do that! But I'll get it done at a track or airfield. I hope for smth like that speed but I know a fast launch isn't going to be easy... 1st gear goes to 62mph.
 
  #13  
Old 07-25-2011 | 10:44 PM
MrWhite's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,680
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 120
MrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond reputeMrWhite has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by heavychevy
I would guess what 8.5 or so on the 60-130?

If you trap 122 with the VBox, you are definitely good. Anything less than 120 and I would be asking some questions if I were you.
Check. Will post when I had a chance.
 
  #14  
Old 07-25-2011 | 11:09 PM
Nikolas's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,241
From: Truckee
Rep Power: 80
Nikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant futureNikolas has a brilliant future
I once had a tuned WRX on dyno dynamics. It recorded 213 whp. They can read really low depending on how they are set up just like Mustang dynos. I watched a GIAC flashed 996tt record 298 WHP on a Mustang. Stock was 270. According to the tuner, it was set at the factory recommended settings.
 
  #15  
Old 07-26-2011 | 03:05 AM
SaintGT2's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 253
From: Australia
Rep Power: 30
SaintGT2 is just really niceSaintGT2 is just really niceSaintGT2 is just really niceSaintGT2 is just really niceSaintGT2 is just really nice
Numbers look good given the fuel. I use Dyno Dynamics all the time and with my last silver gt2, 5bar, UMW 1.1/1.2bar, 98oct I made 441rwhp. Tune for 95Octane I made 406rwhp. Can post dyno graph if you like.
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Road racing K24 tune (done last Sat on Dyno Dynamics))



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:03 AM.