A surprising find...
#1
10-10-2011, 01:30 PM
A surprising find...
Had a chance to do some work on a clients car... noticed he had a aftermarket exhaust... so I checked it out... it's a very popular brand( don't ask which one I will not say it) and found the exhaust flange to be mild steel. Stick a magnet to any steel and if it sticks its NOT Stainless Steel.. being in the business of making exhausts... I could sleep if I charged $3800 for a exhaust system that did not come with tips nor SS flanges...
I'm actually surprised...
We use our own in house cnc machined .5" vs 3/8" SS flanges on all of our exhausts(pic 2)...
markski
I'm actually surprised...
We use our own in house cnc machined .5" vs 3/8" SS flanges on all of our exhausts(pic 2)...
markski
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
Last edited by markski@markskituning; 10-10-2011 at 01:33 PM.
#2
10-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Markski bro nice find...and indeed scary find. You make a fine product indeed, but perhaps you may like to let your fellow enthusiasts know in some way or another so that they can ask the appropriate questions prior to plunking down 4 grand (as you mentioned) on a system that does not deliver on material quality promises...
good looking out
good looking out
#3
10-10-2011, 01:49 PM
The irony of it is that its welded to a very expensive 100 cell cat... I don't get it..
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#4
10-10-2011, 02:10 PM
I have been informed that a lot of the costs of these exhausts is the sub $2000 set of cats, odd to skimp on something like a flange when you have that much into the rest of the system.
It's like buying a (insert expensive / exotic car here) and slapping on LM reps.
It's like buying a (insert expensive / exotic car here) and slapping on LM reps.
#5
10-10-2011, 02:43 PM
retail they are under $1K each.. Im sure they get them for way less...
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#6
10-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Had a chance to do some work on a clients car... noticed he had a aftermarket exhaust... so I checked it out... it's a very popular brand( don't ask which one I will not say it) and found the exhaust flange to be mild steel. Stick a magnet to any steel and if it sticks its NOT Stainless Steel.. being in the business of making exhausts... I could sleep if I charged $3800 for a exhaust system that did not come with tips nor SS flanges...
I'm actually surprised...
We use our own in house cnc machined .5" vs 3/8" SS flanges on all of our exhausts(pic 2)...
markski
I'm actually surprised...
We use our own in house cnc machined .5" vs 3/8" SS flanges on all of our exhausts(pic 2)...
markski
#7
10-10-2011, 03:44 PM
Its funny, non ss flanges get a bad rep but in reality a proper low carbon mild steel flange in many ways is better.
-Mild steel expands at almost 1/3 of a lower rate then ss. This puts less stress on welds, and fasteners under extreme conditions.
-It retains less heat under operation as well as durning the fabrications process.
-Mild steel is MUCH easier to cut flat again if you need to.
-Is cheaper (not that cost of flanges is really a concern at this level).
When we build a header/turbo manifold for a car that high egt will defiantly come into play, we exclusively use mild.
Basically the only downside I can see is corrosion.... but its not like many of these cars are driven in the snow/salt belt.
We give our customers the option of ss when building custom parts but generally recommend mild(flanges only).
For what its worth, the headers I build for my own Cayman had mild steel flanges.
-Mild steel expands at almost 1/3 of a lower rate then ss. This puts less stress on welds, and fasteners under extreme conditions.
-It retains less heat under operation as well as durning the fabrications process.
-Mild steel is MUCH easier to cut flat again if you need to.
-Is cheaper (not that cost of flanges is really a concern at this level).
When we build a header/turbo manifold for a car that high egt will defiantly come into play, we exclusively use mild.
Basically the only downside I can see is corrosion.... but its not like many of these cars are driven in the snow/salt belt.
We give our customers the option of ss when building custom parts but generally recommend mild(flanges only).
For what its worth, the headers I build for my own Cayman had mild steel flanges.
On initial overlap, there is an inevitable reversion pulse that can send exhaust back up the intake tract. If the rust loosens in the header primary tube it can, and sometimes, will carry some of this abrasive material into your cylinder.
due to Stainless Steel Thermal characteristics, the high exhaust temperature is retained inside the primary tubes and can increase the exhaust speed in the header. and etc etc ........
i know there is a reason why alot of race teams use stainles.
regardless i would always choose stainless .if i were to pay top dollar for an exhaust /header ,i would expect top material being used. but thats just me.
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#8
10-10-2011, 03:45 PM
I agree that it works better with heat. However, 2 weeks after you put it on it's rusted as if it's been on for 100 years. That rust works itself into the turbo studs and nuts. Often they weld together on it's own and when it's time to change a turbo or sell the exhaust your breaking or cutting off turbos studs. Btw that happened on 2 of the 8 studs on this car.
Another way to look at it: a rule of thumb is that your not suppose to weld different materials with each other. The weld usually is not as strong.
Tig is used on SS and mig on mild steel. For $50 more I don't see why anyone would not want to do it all SS.
It's ok to differ in opinion. That's what makes this world go round and round..
Another way to look at it: a rule of thumb is that your not suppose to weld different materials with each other. The weld usually is not as strong.
Tig is used on SS and mig on mild steel. For $50 more I don't see why anyone would not want to do it all SS.
It's ok to differ in opinion. That's what makes this world go round and round.
.
Last edited by markski@markskituning; 10-10-2011 at 04:25 PM.
#9
10-10-2011, 03:55 PM
Mark, its very good for discussion and to inform members that it is being done and Tony, thanks for providing a reasonable explanation of why it is done...personally, for my custom exhausts I have always preferred stainless all the way but Tony has some good points that I haven't considered
#10
10-10-2011, 04:19 PM
I agree that it works better with heat. However, 2 weeks after you put it on it's rusted as if it's ben on for 100 years. That rust works itself into the turbo studs and nuts. Often they weld together on it's own and when it's time to change a turbo or sell the exhaust your breaking cutting off turbos studs. Btw that happened on 2 of the 8 studs on this car.
Another issue rathe a rule of thumb is that your not suppose to weld different materials with each other. The weld usually is not as strong.
Tig is used on SS and mig on mild steel. For $50 more I don't see why anyone would not want to do it all SS.
It's ok to differ in opinion. That's what makes this world go round and round..
Another issue rathe a rule of thumb is that your not suppose to weld different materials with each other. The weld usually is not as strong.
Tig is used on SS and mig on mild steel. For $50 more I don't see why anyone would not want to do it all SS.
It's ok to differ in opinion. That's what makes this world go round and round.
.**** happened to me when I swapped my stock exhaust for the AE Performance system.
#11
10-10-2011, 04:21 PM
Registered User
My argument has always been that the 996TT exhaust systems out there were typically to loud, to much drone, and to darned expensive... For $3500-5000, I'd expect full SS flanges.
Mike
Mike
#12
10-10-2011, 04:57 PM
I have built my own turbo headers out of both stainless AND mild steel (although not for a 996). The main benefit , as Mark says, is the corrosion resistance. Stainless is NOT as strong and is more prone to crack, especially if not welded correctly. I have used mild steel and powdercoated them with +1500 deg coatings and have had no issues.
#13
10-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Out of curiosity I checked a OEM exhaust flange and its SS....
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#15
10-10-2011, 06:29 PM
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL