I have been planning to upgrade to gt3 seats to be able to use a 5pt harness but haven't had luck finding a used set and I refuse to pay almost $5K for a new set. Yesterday I found this new harness that can be used with stock seats and I am looking for opinions. I have heard before that a 4pt harness can be dangerous because it will not hold you in place properly in case of an accident but I also know Schroth is a reputable company so I don't think they would sell something that is obviously dangerous. I would use this for a few driving schools/year with the BK harness bar.



http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...newproductpage

 

I think you need the harness bar too. It keeps the belt at shoulder level

 

where do I start...there are several problems here...a four point with a stock seat is very dangerous....not only because you can submarine the lap belts but because the stock seat will force the shoulder straps off of your shoulders in an impact...you might as well be wearing nothing...your stock belts are designed to work with the stock seats...if you can't step up to a roll bar, racing seat, 5/6 point harness then stick with your stock set up and get some G-locks for your stock seatbelts....please don't risk your safety on the erroneous conclusion that "they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't safe"...if they knew you were going to use it with a stock seat they wouldn't sell it to you...you are the only one responsible for your safety...I see so many that put the cart before the horse...before you get GT3 seats you need some roll over protection because GT3 seats and a harness bar will get you killed in a rollover if you don't have rollover protection to keep the roof from crushing your noggin...please think this through

 

They are actually saying it is for stock seats and have a picture with dangerous setup...

 

that is unfortunate as they should know better

 

Thanks for the advise - I really appreciate it.

 

Schroth 4 pts are NOT ok for any porsche stock seat save the gt2 997 style seat or the 996 gt3 seat.

Period.

They do work and are PCA national ok in a car with gt3 seats (fixed, 996 type). They are safer in some ways than a 6pt system as they have an anti-sub strap built in that will let the neck react better, more like a 3pt.


I have such and have an "ok" from PCA national tech.

If you really evaluate it, they convert into a 3pt in a crash load, the anti-sub strap. It may be superior for DE than a 6pt....my 2c.


Oh, I'd never run any >3pt unit without a neck support of some sort (Hans, etc...).



Jeff

 

A couple things:

1) As Chuck said, don't use 4 points with your stock seats. Not safe, and most DE groups won't let you use them anyway.
2) Get a CG-Lock for your 3 points www.cg-lock.com and use that. The CG-Lock will lock your lapbelt and secure your hips. You can lock your shoulder belt by moving your seat back, locking the shoulder belt inertia reel, then moving your seat forward.
3) I was facing the same dilemma as you last season, and found that my sport seats just weren't securing me in the car enough. I found a great set of used GT3 Euro seats on this forum for half what they would have cost new. Just installed them with Schroth 6-pts and a BK harness bar. Works great.

Tim

 

Thanks guys - I will keep looking for a set of used GT3 seats. Are you OK running the GT3 seats with the BK harness bar WITHOUT a roll cage? GT3Chuck mentioned that it was not safe to run that set-up unless you had a roll cage...

 

That is a personal decision. Some feel the bar is a hazard the other 99% of the time you are in the car...Porsche in Europe sells cars with a bar...not so in the US due to litigation I assume (don't know).

I don't run the bar with my Schroth ASM belts. If I had standard, non-ASM belts, I would do so for DE and take it out for street.... I use the high end ASM belts and a BK harness bar. The angle of our seats to the rear seat belts is too steep for the BMW orients tuner belts....fyi. You need to have a harness bar and the BK is, in my mind, better than others. The ASM functions to release the inner shoulder strap making the system a 3pt belt and letting the driver's torso behave like the factory system, making the airbags functional and allowing one to not have a roll bar. Frankly, I think they are brilliant. PCA national agreed. You still need the right seats, a harness bar, etc.


http://www.schrothracing.com/store/C...m/profi-II-asm is what I use.


Now, if I went to a roll bar, DAS or vivid or other, I'd just be nervous about an MVA without a helmet on....even with the ASM's. Look at the videos on the Schroth/HMS site. A driver moves a bit in a crash even in a system....and this can be good, to dissipate kinetic energy. Take a look at where the dummy's "head" gets in the 3pt in the crash test and think about where a roll bar may be....especially if you put stock seats back in.....




Car is a hard top, btw. I personally wouldn't do a convertible at a DE sans cage. The idea of sliding on the window frame and the seat bars hanging there with my head dragging on the ground just bothers me too much. Not logical..but my mental picture bugs me.

I am no crash expert...just spent a long time learning about this stuff. To me, I am more likely to have an MVA on the street by far than at a DE.

NO RED MIST is the best way to stay safe...realize it is just for fun and your are not a pro....to me, a cool head is worth 20 roll bars.


I also use BK back braces...fyi.

http://www.bkauto.com/universal/seat..._universal.php

http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r9024.php

http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r1029.php




On track, helmet and R3 as they are compatible with the Schroth unit. The R3 is awesome IMHO.

http://www.upr.com/R3-p578.html


Save a full system, the purist say do it all, or leave it factory. Any mix is a compromise. And these cars can get up to nearly 200mph.....that is a LOT of kinetic energy and most of the off the shelf stuff needs to be carefully done to not make you less safe than factory IMHO. My hybrid system is the only way I could figure out a race harness's control with street safety (no bar)...


To the OP, go to a real race shop (not a shop that does street cars for looks, but a GMG or DAS/CDOC type place...and ask around...or talk to some instructors at a PCA HPDE that have race seat time. Most say do it all or leave it alone. A CG lock with stock stuff is remarkably good.

 

I don't have a cage, as the 996 cab has the Porsche roll-over protection system, pop-up roll bars behind the rear seats. The BK R-1029 harness bar works great.

 

Running with 6 point harnesses without roll over protection (roll bar) is VERY dangerous for the simple reason that if you had a roll over and the roof caved in, your head wold be crushed and or neck broken since you can not duck forward or to the side as you would with normal 3 point belts. At the same token, running around with a roll bar in your car and not wearing a helmet can be equally dangerous to your noggin in the case of an accident. Pick your poison....

 

Certainly a roll cage on the street would be a risk...a simple roll bar like the tequipment or das is not, as your head is nowhere near the bar....I guess this notion gives some solace to those that run a racing seat and harness without roll protection but I have witnessed too many fatalities in roll overs with that setup and it makes no difference how "safe" you drive as I have seen many drivers killed because of another drivers poor decisions not their own...as mentioned, this is an individual choice...just remember that you are the last word as to how safe your car is and to do anything less is complete lunacy in my mind

 

The passenger restraint systems in cars are a "system" (not a collection of assorted parts) designed to reduce fatalities not to assist the driver in negotiating a race course. As most of the DE experienced drivers have said, keep it stock or go all the way. All the way meaning a helmet, HANS system, full cage, five or six point belts, seats designed to be used with these systems and no airbags. The stock belts, airbags, and seats are put through some very destructive crash testing. A collection of assorted seat restaint parts is not system and there is no testing done to see how it will protect the occupants in a crash. I won't even consider after market seats in my car. I'd pay the extra money for GT2/3 seats as they designed to be part of the safety system and have been through the appropriate crash testing.

 

Guys - thanks a lot again; really good material here. The more I think about the more I keep landing on the idea of turning my car into a fully dedicated track. I recently installed a set of KVW3 coilovers and while I really liked them at the track, they do make the ride on the street stiffer. Same is true with the safety gear....specially after watching those videos makes you want to get a full rollcage and everything else that is needed.
Thanks!