Second fuel pump question need help asap
#1
Second fuel pump question need help asap
So my tech is assembling all new stuff on engine and says fitting a second fuel pump in place of the fuel filter is a waste of time.
This is the mail he sent which explains why
Hi Adam,
*
Re thge second fuel pump, I can`t see any reason to fit this pump, as well as being difficult as we will have to have some unions made so it can be fitted to existing fittings, it won`t actually do anything, the main pump in the tank will provide the pressure, fitting an extra pump in series will not increase pressure or flow, if the first pump cant deliver enough, the additional wont make any difference, if the first pump failed the second pump couldnt pump any fuel as it needs to suck it through the first pump, and the pressure is controlled by the fuel pressure regulator, which is not affected by an additional pump.
*
My thoughts are we dont fit it, its extra work and expense for no benefit, I will run the wires inside the car so something can be done at a later date, but the installation of an extra pump in that way just doesnt make any logical sense.
*
Regards
Can anyone help with this or elaborate? Thankyou
This is the mail he sent which explains why
Hi Adam,
*
Re thge second fuel pump, I can`t see any reason to fit this pump, as well as being difficult as we will have to have some unions made so it can be fitted to existing fittings, it won`t actually do anything, the main pump in the tank will provide the pressure, fitting an extra pump in series will not increase pressure or flow, if the first pump cant deliver enough, the additional wont make any difference, if the first pump failed the second pump couldnt pump any fuel as it needs to suck it through the first pump, and the pressure is controlled by the fuel pressure regulator, which is not affected by an additional pump.
*
My thoughts are we dont fit it, its extra work and expense for no benefit, I will run the wires inside the car so something can be done at a later date, but the installation of an extra pump in that way just doesnt make any logical sense.
*
Regards
Can anyone help with this or elaborate? Thankyou
#2
Yes it is more involved then just buying a pump...
that is why some of us make such kits... so that mechanics like him do not complain.
Benefit is that with 60 lbs injectors you can run 850hp vs 700 hp on oem config...
with this set up you have no room to put the pump unless you use our blow thru set up:
with this set up you can put it on any 996tt with OEM parts:
that is why some of us make such kits... so that mechanics like him do not complain.
Benefit is that with 60 lbs injectors you can run 850hp vs 700 hp on oem config...
with this set up you have no room to put the pump unless you use our blow thru set up:
with this set up you can put it on any 996tt with OEM parts:
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#4
If your not going over 620whp you do not need it..
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#5
bro you really need to get you self a new tech cause your current one is clueless
i run maskskis setup , have for years with big turbos etc, i run over 720 whp on race gas .
so i would say, it does provide a significant benefit. you should get a the kit from 911 tuning.
i run maskskis setup , have for years with big turbos etc, i run over 720 whp on race gas .
so i would say, it does provide a significant benefit. you should get a the kit from 911 tuning.
#6
There are hundreds of 996tts with a second 044 pump installed. Mine is one of them, and yes they work and are needed with if you are putting in larger injectors. Are you adding larger injectors, new turbos, and a re-tune?
#7
Adding injectors ic clitch a28 inlet piped race cats 3 inch exhaust 60lb etc. but my techs answer to this is just because alot do it doesnt make it right. I am trying to find some technical info on how this works. He says unless the second pump has its own source of fuel it cant add any more
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#8
Adding injectors ic clitch a28 inlet piped race cats 3 inch exhaust 60lb etc. but my techs answer to this is just because alot do it doesnt make it right. I am trying to find some technical info on how this works. He says unless the second pump has its own source of fuel it cant add any more
These cars have extremely small margins for error....
#9
I will talk with him again tomorrow but this guy does have a past in formula one and then rally car building at world class level. I went with this guy because i didnt want the car messed up
#10
I'm sure there are ways to install a 2nd pump that would fit his description, but people routinely run this setup. Stock pump runs out about 700bhp and the inline pumps get enough extra to run like 850bhp. There are many examples of people dyno tuning on a single pump, getting a lean fuel mixture, adding 2nd inline pump, and voila! Not lean anymore.
If you'd like a good read on it, a member 'johnspeed' on here went through this exact scenario a few months ago.
Here's the link
If you'd like a good read on it, a member 'johnspeed' on here went through this exact scenario a few months ago.
Here's the link
Last edited by vr4henry; 02-02-2012 at 01:38 PM. Reason: link added
#12
Yes : with the pump... hits about 780rwhp... but if someone wants that power and will be up there all the time I suggest 80 lbs injectors with the pump...
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#13
Adding injectors ic clitch a28 inlet piped race cats 3 inch exhaust 60lb etc. but my techs answer to this is just because alot do it doesnt make it right. I am trying to find some technical info on how this works. He says unless the second pump has its own source of fuel it cant add any more
Tod K, from protomotive uses this method also and hes one of the best tuner ,engine builder , if not the best in the world.
i know of tons of cars running this system , all over 700 whp with no issues ,and perfect afr's.
find your self a new shop.
#15
Ok... just looking at the simple science of it for a second.
(power*bsfc)/ (# of injectors/ Target duty cycle run) = approx injector size
Solving for stock BSFC:
Stock power = 415
BSFC = X
# Of injectors = 6
Max DC stock under load = 80
(415 * X)/(6 /80) = 44lb
x=.61
Now a tuned car with 850hp and 60lb injectors:
(850* X)/(6/90%) = 60
Tuned power = 850
BSFC = X
# Of injectors = 6
Max DC stock under load = 90
x= .4479
The math doesnt add up... I don't understand how anyone could be picking up 35%+ efficiency especially when you consider that factory BSFC is based on a MUCH leaner AF ratio.
If this is possible... who ever figures it out would make way more money designing engines for OE applications then tuning cars .
(power*bsfc)/ (# of injectors/ Target duty cycle run) = approx injector size
Solving for stock BSFC:
Stock power = 415
BSFC = X
# Of injectors = 6
Max DC stock under load = 80
(415 * X)/(6 /80) = 44lb
x=.61
Now a tuned car with 850hp and 60lb injectors:
(850* X)/(6/90%) = 60
Tuned power = 850
BSFC = X
# Of injectors = 6
Max DC stock under load = 90
x= .4479
The math doesnt add up... I don't understand how anyone could be picking up 35%+ efficiency especially when you consider that factory BSFC is based on a MUCH leaner AF ratio.
If this is possible... who ever figures it out would make way more money designing engines for OE applications then tuning cars .
Im not kidding thats the truth... car never blew up...
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL