EVOMS clubsport intercoolers vs 997.2 for 600whp
#16
One issue with the OEM intercoolers vs. EVOMS is the inlet and outlet diameter. If you have a 2.5" intake system with larger Y-Pipe, etc. the OEM hoses and IC's become the bottleneck on the car. If you are staying with the smaller OEM style intake, then it's probably the way to go.
However, if you have a 2.5" Y-pipe, larger throttle body and plenum, etc. and have upgraded turbos, you will want intercoolers with 2.5" openings on the end tanks, like the EVOMS or the OEM IC's and subsequent smaller diameter OEM hose become the restriction point of your intake system. This becomes more important the larger the turbos are or as you begin to run high boost levels...
We always recommend our 2.5" intercoolers to our customers that are purchasing our Y-Pipe / TB kit. The car will produce more power and spool quicker due to the increased flow a full 2.5" system offers.
However, if you have a 2.5" Y-pipe, larger throttle body and plenum, etc. and have upgraded turbos, you will want intercoolers with 2.5" openings on the end tanks, like the EVOMS or the OEM IC's and subsequent smaller diameter OEM hose become the restriction point of your intake system. This becomes more important the larger the turbos are or as you begin to run high boost levels...
We always recommend our 2.5" intercoolers to our customers that are purchasing our Y-Pipe / TB kit. The car will produce more power and spool quicker due to the increased flow a full 2.5" system offers.
Your intercoolers are cheap ($wise) relative to many other aftermarket coolers. Do you have much data/testing behind them? I can not find any.
I think your y-pipe is the right size, opposed to the vivid 3" pipe that makes no sense. I removed my vivid 3" pipe and put the OEM back.
One thing I do not fully understand. I have a set of GT30 turbos in my garage. The air outlet is less than 2". If the air outlet is under 2", why would even a 2.5" intake system be necessary? I never see people discuss the air outlet of their turbos.
Thanks!
#17
are you serious? taking logs of your car after you put new intercoolers on (and then deleting those logs) and not comparing it to anything....that proves nothing. All you said is that 997.2 could not compete. How do you know? Stop trying to make yourself feel better for spending $4.5k on intercoolers.
If you are going to run your car for more then 5 minutes in serious heat, ICs make a huge difference. It seems you are unaware (seriously, every time you spout off you say something that makes you look more and more foolish) of the fact that heat is the enemy of horsepower.
Real world comparisons are dramatic. For example, I was doing some roll on racing in mexico against another car (won't mention any names) that had quite a few power adders, but still had stock ICs.
The first few pulls were competitive. However once his car started to heat soak (surely you have heard of the phenomena.....but then again, I am continually amazed at your level of ignorance) I started to walk him hard.
The reason is that my temps were kept down by my IC's, his were not.
#18
BTW, why do you think that every good tuner...Switzer, Protomotive, EVOMs, 911 tuning (Markski) all include large ICs as part of there package?
They have many many years of experience w/ these cars.
They have many many years of experience w/ these cars.
#19
Yes, I am very serious. We did compare the IATs, and the comparison was between the EVO clubs and the 5 inch Protos).
If you are going to run your car for more then 5 minutes in serious heat, ICs make a huge difference. It seems you are unaware (seriously, every time you spout off you say something that makes you look more and more foolish) of the fact that heat is the enemy of horsepower.
Real world comparisons are dramatic. For example, I was doing some roll on racing in mexico against another car (won't mention any names) that had quite a few power adders, but still had stock ICs.
The first few pulls were competitive. However once his car started to heat soak (surely you have heard of the phenomena.....but then again, I am continually amazed at your level of ignorance) I started to walk him hard.
The reason is that my temps were kept down by my IC's, his were not.
If you are going to run your car for more then 5 minutes in serious heat, ICs make a huge difference. It seems you are unaware (seriously, every time you spout off you say something that makes you look more and more foolish) of the fact that heat is the enemy of horsepower.
Real world comparisons are dramatic. For example, I was doing some roll on racing in mexico against another car (won't mention any names) that had quite a few power adders, but still had stock ICs.
The first few pulls were competitive. However once his car started to heat soak (surely you have heard of the phenomena.....but then again, I am continually amazed at your level of ignorance) I started to walk him hard.
The reason is that my temps were kept down by my IC's, his were not.
#20
Jitsu, you tell people what to do with no technical knowledge whatsoever. Didn't you have trouble changing your own oil?
Intercoolers are not just about temperature Jitsu. There is flow and pressure and a few other variables. Fluid dynamics is very complicated. I am not an expert by any means, but neither are you. You will not become an expert by copying and pasting other peoples posts either.
#21
However I have had the Evoms, and they are a good choice for moderate power levels. When you start getting above 600 whp, and if you live somewhere hot, you will want 4 inch or a bit larger.
ICs make a difference.
#23
You are dead on regarding the varying diameters. In theory there is some pressure drop that will occur as the system length increases but it's a relatively short system and likely negligible. On the other hand, the air post IC is cooler than pre IC and therefore more dense and could technically flow at least the same volume in a smaller tube. There are a ton of things going on for sure but you are right the biggest restriction in the positive side of system is the turbo out. No reason to go any larger than this. In the rest of the plumbing.
If bigger is always better, why do intercoolers such as Secan and CTR cost $10k+ and retain roughly the stock dimensions.
Jitsu, you tell people what to do with no technical knowledge whatsoever. Didn't you have trouble changing your own oil?
Intercoolers are not just about temperature Jitsu. There is flow and pressure and a few other variables. Fluid dynamics is very complicated. I am not an expert by any means, but neither are you. You will not become an expert by copying and pasting other peoples posts either.
Jitsu, you tell people what to do with no technical knowledge whatsoever. Didn't you have trouble changing your own oil?
Intercoolers are not just about temperature Jitsu. There is flow and pressure and a few other variables. Fluid dynamics is very complicated. I am not an expert by any means, but neither are you. You will not become an expert by copying and pasting other peoples posts either.
#24
Your intercoolers are cheap ($wise) relative to many other aftermarket coolers. Do you have much data/testing behind them? I can not find any.
I think your y-pipe is the right size, opposed to the vivid 3" pipe that makes no sense. I removed my vivid 3" pipe and put the OEM back.
One thing I do not fully understand. I have a set of GT30 turbos in my garage. The air outlet is less than 2". If the air outlet is under 2", why would even a 2.5" intake system be necessary? I never see people discuss the air outlet of their turbos.
Thanks!
I think your y-pipe is the right size, opposed to the vivid 3" pipe that makes no sense. I removed my vivid 3" pipe and put the OEM back.
One thing I do not fully understand. I have a set of GT30 turbos in my garage. The air outlet is less than 2". If the air outlet is under 2", why would even a 2.5" intake system be necessary? I never see people discuss the air outlet of their turbos.
Thanks!
With a modified car and larger turbos, the increased flow characteristics / less resistance that a full 2.5" intake path provides will enable the car to make more power vs. the restrictive OEM components. That is why all major tuners use this type of set-up for customers seeking maximum power from their cars. The EVOMS IC's are a perfect fit for this type of upgrade.
__________________
991.2 GT3 RS Weissach Racing Yellow
991.2 Turbo S GT Silver
991.2 GT3 Chalk (Manual)
2022 Cayenne White
former 1972 911T white, 1984 911 3.2 Targa black, 993 cab white, 993TT arena red, 993TT silver, 996TT speed yellow, 991.1 GT3 white
www.speedtechexhausts.com
info@speedtechexhausts.com
Testimonials facebook SpeedTech Exhaust Videos
991.2 GT3 RS Weissach Racing Yellow
991.2 Turbo S GT Silver
991.2 GT3 Chalk (Manual)
2022 Cayenne White
former 1972 911T white, 1984 911 3.2 Targa black, 993 cab white, 993TT arena red, 993TT silver, 996TT speed yellow, 991.1 GT3 white
www.speedtechexhausts.com
info@speedtechexhausts.com
Testimonials facebook SpeedTech Exhaust Videos
#25
If bigger is always better, why do intercoolers such as Secan and CTR cost $10k+ and retain roughly the stock dimensions.
Jitsu, you tell people what to do with no technical knowledge whatsoever. Didn't you have trouble changing your own oil?
Intercoolers are not just about temperature Jitsu. There is flow and pressure and a few other variables. Fluid dynamics is very complicated. I am not an expert by any means, but neither are you. You will not become an expert by copying and pasting other peoples posts either.
Jitsu, you tell people what to do with no technical knowledge whatsoever. Didn't you have trouble changing your own oil?
Intercoolers are not just about temperature Jitsu. There is flow and pressure and a few other variables. Fluid dynamics is very complicated. I am not an expert by any means, but neither are you. You will not become an expert by copying and pasting other peoples posts either.
5 inch ICs are a poor choice for a car w/ K16s, an exhaust, and a tune. That is why all the good tuners, as I stated above, match ICs w/ the performance mods. For a car w/ a full blow through, GT30s and every bolt on, well made 5 inchers are the best, 4.5 if you live somewhere cold.
You need to pick a good tuner and trust in their advice as to what you need. They have the experience and will match ICs to your needs. And I am not sure what an oil change has to do with anything? One thing I do have experience doing, is driving, so anytime you want to line up against me, we can put some money on the line, I am there.
#26
Peyton Manning probably knows very little about how a football is made. Does that mean he knows nothing about getting the ball into the endzone?
#28
I think the point some are making, Dr. Jitsu, is that you cannot claim the 997.2 ICs are inferior to EVOMS clubsport ICs, or inferior to Protomotive's ICs, if you don't have relevant comparison data to support such a claim. Since you've never used a set of them, you can't offer if they're better/worse/equal to any that you have tried instead. Pretty simple.
People have tested the 997.2 ICs to be significantly better than 996 and 997.1 ICs, and found that these GT2RS ICs perform even better than many aftermarket IC options - even moderately expensive ones. I think the same people figured out that the relatively cheap aftermarket ICs are actually worse than stock 996/7.1 ones... yet some tuners are happy to sell you a set... go figure.
I will simply say this - I agree with you, but with the caveat that some folks "trust," and others "trust but verify." The latter camp sometimes finds out interesting (often unpopular with the parts peddlers) info to share with the community...
People have tested the 997.2 ICs to be significantly better than 996 and 997.1 ICs, and found that these GT2RS ICs perform even better than many aftermarket IC options - even moderately expensive ones. I think the same people figured out that the relatively cheap aftermarket ICs are actually worse than stock 996/7.1 ones... yet some tuners are happy to sell you a set... go figure.
I will simply say this - I agree with you, but with the caveat that some folks "trust," and others "trust but verify." The latter camp sometimes finds out interesting (often unpopular with the parts peddlers) info to share with the community...
#30
I think the point some are making, Dr. Jitsu, is that you cannot claim the 997.2 ICs are inferior to EVOMS clubsport ICs, or inferior to Protomotive's ICs, if you don't have relevant comparison data to support such a claim. Since you've never used a set of them, you can't offer if they're better/worse/equal to any that you have tried instead. Pretty simple.
People have tested the 997.2 ICs to be significantly better than 996 and 997.1 ICs, and found that these GT2RS ICs perform even better than many aftermarket IC options - even moderately expensive ones. I think the same people figured out that the relatively cheap aftermarket ICs are actually worse than stock 996/7.1 ones... yet some tuners are happy to sell you a set... go figure.
I will simply say this - I agree with you, but with the caveat that some folks "trust," and others "trust but verify." The latter camp sometimes finds out interesting (often unpopular with the parts peddlers) info to share with the community...
People have tested the 997.2 ICs to be significantly better than 996 and 997.1 ICs, and found that these GT2RS ICs perform even better than many aftermarket IC options - even moderately expensive ones. I think the same people figured out that the relatively cheap aftermarket ICs are actually worse than stock 996/7.1 ones... yet some tuners are happy to sell you a set... go figure.
I will simply say this - I agree with you, but with the caveat that some folks "trust," and others "trust but verify." The latter camp sometimes finds out interesting (often unpopular with the parts peddlers) info to share with the community...
However, as I mentioned, unless you have maxed out your bolt ons, you don't need the big ICs. A car running an exhaust, GT28 turbos and not much else should be fine w/ the 997.2s. Of course that car is not going to make 600 whp.
Last edited by Dr_jitsu; 03-20-2012 at 05:47 PM.