OK, I'm going out on a limb, and hope only a few of you will laugh or snicker, but here goes.....

I bought a STOCK 03 turbo tip some weeks ago (my first Pcar), and got some added "go" with an EVOMS kit. woo-hoo But from day one, I've been almost scared at how poorly the car handles, which just cant be right- its a Porsche, right ??!!.
For background, I've driven at track events in my stock and modded Audis and Corvettes, have some off-road rally and extensive Baja race experience, so I don't feel its "me."

The only way to describe is that the front end feels really light at any speed above 75-80, and in sweepers or turns, it literally feels like it won't settle down, and feels like its wobbly. I had a FULL PPI, and the suspension checked out, and apart form the front shocks showing "some wear" everything is tight and right.

I've read about a "light" front end float feeling, but is this what everyone means? I'm planning on some decent coilovers, but would love some input from all you experts
Basically, is this a "normal" feel? Help----
OK, laughing is now allowed.

 

Not normal - for my car at least. Have you had an alignment done?

 

Well, your experience is with front engine (or in the case of the Corvette with front mid engine) cars and this is I guess your first rear engine car.

Its front end feels light because it is 'light'. The majority of the car's weight -- I forget the percentage but it may be in the 56 or 58 percent region -- is over the rear wheels.

The car is new to you, so I'd advise an alignment. Get this done at a shop that knows these cars and can do you a good job. This is no place to scrimp.

Before the alignment, as per the factory manual, be sure the tires are inflated properly and all junk (dead weight) is removed from the car. The spare tire/tool kit should be installed and in the right place. The fuel tank should be full.

Some places put some ballast on the driver's side others do not. I've had my cars aligned both ways and I can't tell the difference.

Before you go for the alignment some questions: Are the tires in good shape? N-rated? The right sizes? Matching? No alignment will compensate for shoddy or worn or mismatched or wrong tires.

(I had some horribly worn tires on my Boxster. Front tires had about 50K miles, the rears around 30K miles. The rear tires were worn down to the belts in the center of the tread. The car felt downright squirrely to the point I was pricing new shocks/struts/ and suspension hardware/bushings. But I decided (helped by the high prices for these items) to see what if any improvement came from having new tires fitted. Glad I waited. Like night and day. In fact the Porsche tech advised against an alignment. He said the center tread wear is not a sign of alignment issues and since the tire wear was 'even' otherwise he felt the alignment was just fine.)

Anyhow, address or at least eliminate the obvious things first.

Oh, shocks/struts... If any are leaking fluid the leaking one and its mate on the other side should be replaced. I can tell you my 03 Turbo's shocks feel just fine and the car has 92K miles. Even my 02 Boxster with over 255K miles on its OE shocks feels pretty darn good and the struts/shocks are not leaking. I look for any signs of strut/shock wear: wallowing or bobbing up and down after a dip/rise in the road, the rear end skittering around a sharp turn if the road surface is rippled, things like that, and so far these signs are absent. Thank goodness.

But the Turbo is obviously a heavier car so it might not get the same long life as my Boxster has gotten from its struts/shocks.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

No, I had not. A proper alignment will be next step, since it feels way too squirrely (sic). I may endure until I get my coilovers so I don't do it twice!
Oddly, it tracks straight and true at all speeds going in a straight line. It doesn't wander at all, which for these size tires surprises me. Its ONLY in sustained turns that I get that uneasy feeling. I'll find that "right" alignment shop that can do it correctly. Tires are new N rated Michelin Pilot Sports, and I'll double check inflation again. Car just passed 60K miles.

 

Since this topic has been brought up I have a similar problem. I have KW V3's, Tarret tie rods, and their rear toe lock kit. The car is a GT2 height with rebound and compression settings in the middle of the adjustment range. I am running 19" DPE wheels with tire pressure set to 40 rear and 36 front. At 70-80 mph it feels squirrelly and jittery. The alignment was done at a reputable shop, so I am not sure what the problem could be.

Any advice or ideas on what my alignment settings should be?

 

if you are that concerned about handling....get rid of the 19" and go 18"... (FWIW, I run 19s and have no problem with handling....)

 

I think maybe you need to drive a few more 911s. The handling is different, that's for sure. I grew up in the '60s driving VW Bugs and hot rodded them, adding power and lowering them. I grew to love the rear weight bias handling and 911s would certainly be in my future. I also roadraced motorcycles for several years and they handle a lot like 911s. When you commit to a turn, stay on the gas or things get ugly. When you get the handling down, the 911 is fun and rewarding. Nothing else compares.

 

It just seems like the car is jittery so 18's might cure it, but I like the 19's. The car just feels like it isn't fully planted and predictable. The tires are new but not the best brand wise so I don't know how much of a difference tires would make.

 

I call that feeling "A cat scratching at the tile to get traction" I myself dislike that gittery squirming to get traction feeling and I am just about to erase it, I hope.

I tend to think it is due to all the rubber in the suspension links; I am going to start with a complete set of dog bones and trailing arms. They should likely get installed in next week or so; just to get a feel for that set up I will likely run that for a bit then a complete set of Ohlins TTX shocks are going on.

 

As you are coming out of front engine cars you will at first sometimes be taken off guard on how a AWD rear engine Porsche will handle (image what a GT2 feels like with no front grip to save you). The evolution of Porsche has started to change with the 964 as they tried to migrate to a grand touring car as the 928 was not the success they thought it would be. Until the 964 the cars were down right spartan, light but still had unusual handling. In an effort to help prevent snap throttle oversteer, 4 wheel drive was introduced. While this was a failure on the 964, the more simplified version on the 993 was successful. The introduction of the Tip also expanded the customer base to include buyers that were not as concerned about handle and more concerned about daily drivability and comfort. Hence Porsche began retuning the suspension for greater market appeal. However they also realized they were losing some of the traditional owners and began offering more track oriented cars like the GT2, GT3 and GT3RS in the US. The solution to your problem is to retune the suspension which just doesn't mean buying a set of coil overs and hoping they work out. It's a suspension system. Everything has to work together. Define your personal preferences on how you would like the car to handle then approach a shop that has done lots of 996/997TT suspensions. They know what works well together and what doesn't. Get the entire suspension system done at once and not a bit at a time because paying for labor twice is no fun. It might cost you more in the short run, but in the long run you'll be much happier with the result.

 

Your starting in the right place. The back end is the weak link (pun intended). 996TT are very azz heavy and Porsche haa used suspension bushings and springs that are too soft. Dog bones take out the weird feeling of having the rear end start to take a set then step out a bit as the slack in the suspension is taken up. You can also take all the rubber out of the lower control arms and top shock mounts. Rear adjustable toe steer links become neccessary as the stock eccentrics don't have enough adjustment. These work well in conjunction with the dog bones. I think your better off having the coil overs done with the dog bones has you just paying for installation and an alignment twice. You can also get the car corner balanced. With all the stiffening going on, you're going to start snapping stock drops links so budget for some adjustable ones. The motor mounts and tranny mount also have too much give and should be replaced There are several options available and not very costly. These are easy DYI projects. The stock shifter is too vague, upgrade to the 997SS (a simple but time consuming DYI, but at least you don't get dirty)

 

What are your current alignment specs? You indicate you have "rear toe lock kit". Is this the adjustable toe steer arm or just lock out plates for the eccentrics. I'd be surprised that without dog bones and adjustable toe steer arms you can get both the negative camber and toe in with in spec. The front suspension pick up points on a GT2 are also different. Wider 19" wheels (especially with some the radical offsets needed to get them to fit under the wells without rubbing) and tires play havoc with handling as the stock suspension was tuned for a lighter and narrower tire combo. I have both 19" (just cus they do look better) and a set of 18" just because they do handle better.

 

The first place to start is always alignment. It is inexpensive, effective and you can actually adjust the way any cars drives fairly significantly. The obvious counter to this is that if it is not aligned correctly, the car will not drive well -- even if it tracks straight. My car is a great example of this; when I purchased it I had the alignment checked... The previous owner, on only what I could guess as a way to combat tire wear, had removed as much of the negative camber as possible in the rear. With the stock suspension, this results in toe in as it is not designed for 0 negative. Even better there was significantly more toe on the left than on the right... This exacerbated the already prominent push, while also making it inconsistent to drive.

My personal setup is to go with 0 toe (or as close to 0 as possible) both front at rear. I dial out much of the negative camber in the back as I can for the street, but ramp it up for track use. In the front I add as much negative camber as I can - this, however, is rather limited by the stock suspension (adjustable lower control arms are my next purchase).

I should note that I am also running adjustable Eibach sway bars - full loose front and full stiff rear.

Note: this may not be appropriate for everyone as I like a nervous car that has good turn in and tends to over steer.

Basically: Get an alignment and see how she feels. Once you have a baseline, troubleshoot from there.

Good luck,

 

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-splitter.html

maybe look into this, I had similar floaty nose in high speed turns, felt like the front was barely on the ground - f1crazydriver now in part with/of EBWorks exhaust made them

 

As others have said, if you're coming from front engine cars, a rear engine car will feel entirely different and definitely jittery.

My only suspension mod so far on my Turbo was to add Eibach sways. The difference before and after has been incredible. Myself and a friend of mine, who drove it before quite a bit and also owns a 997S, both agree it made a world of difference. Body roll is now nonexistent, cornering much more stable, and the general ride and handling under all circumstances is drastically improved. The stock sways are far too soft so they're a definite part to replace. Since you can do it easily without tearing the suspension apart, I'd highly encourage you to start here and feel the difference since you're going to want to change them regardless of what springs and shocks you're running.