Your thoughts are now clearer. Lol.

 

I'm really not concerned with the slight differences in performance between bone stock Porsche Turbos, as I would never keep any of them stock. If I need a bone stock car that outperforms 99% of the other bone stock cars around, I already have that in my GT-R.

The 997 is better built, better breathing, has a far superior AWD system, and a better fuel system. Of course, most would agree that the interior and exterior looks are also better (subjective).

Also, the Porsche builders that I have worked with (Protomotive and Switzer) both agree that the 997 is the superior car.

But if you're happy with your 996, that's all that should matter to you. It really is a truly great car, and as I stated before, regardless of which one you buy (996 or 997), you are still getting a world-class performance car.

 

A far superior awd system? Really? How many seconds per corner? In the real world not marketing waffle?

Better build? In what respect?

Look I love both cars but it is such statements that just annoy the heck out of me. All this spec talk is crap in the real world. And so is 927 bhp on the road. Unless you race lights to lights and 1/4 miles once on proper roads with twists or on track then you quickly realise that 500 bhp cars with sorted suspension and brakes are all similar. The rest is driving skill.

In f1 a while back cars had turbos and 1200 bhp. However today's car spanking them - lap times - same circuits - by 5 seconds.


As I said I love both cars once tuned and sorted suspension wise 996 is a better track tool period.

 

I'm not going to continue debating this with you because I can tell by your recent comments that you're feelings are being hurt (which wasn't my intent), but the guys who have actually owned both cars will all tell you that the 997 is the superior car overall. Further; Switzer, Protomotive, and TPC Racing, tuners who build (and race, in the case of TPC) Porsches for a living and therefore have no dog in the fight, have also all told me that the 997 is superior. The reasons for this have already been posted earlier in the thread by multiple posters.

So, who to believe? Someone who has only owned a 996 and therefore has a obvious reason for bias to that particular generation? Or, a combination of those who have owned both generations, along with tuners who make their living building and modifying Porsches? IMO, there's really nothing more to say.

Enjoy your car.

 

Enjoy your car. And if by any chance you come to Europe where this car was built for other things than racing lights to lights, look me up and I will take you to some tracks where we can compare the talk with the walk.

 

Just before I sign off i want to finish this philosophically; we debated this same issue to death numerous times. I can see by the thread that most 996t owners gave it up. So did I, therefore I have no idea why I am debating this issue yet again. Same issue, different players. Once someone ups their accoutrement to the 997 the 996 becomes the underdog. And in a few years time the 997 owners will defend their underdog against the 991. It's so pathetic. What is the mater with all of us? They are all great cars, they are all porsches. It just amazes me how 997 guys can't raise above it, but then of course if something isn't revolution but merely an evolution it needs defending by all means and the easiest way is to beat on the underdog.

 

Yes.

The 997TT uses an electronically controlled center differential lock which actively controls torque distribution. The PTM control unit calculates wheel speeds independently of lateral and longitudinal acceleration in relationship to steering angle and works with the optional rear differential lock. The multi clutch center differential opens and closes much faster than the older viscous coupled 996TT system. It takes less than 100 milliseconds to shunt power between front and rear axles as required to maintain optimum traction, more than 2 times faster than the 996 AWD system. It also opens instantly to free the axles under ABS activation.

In comparison to the older viscous coupling system on the 996TT, the 997TT multi plate clutch is capable of transferring 80 to 100% of the torque instantaneously from rear to front. This allows delivery of as much as 100% drive power to be transferred to either axle during slip...(although on a dry road under constant throttle, it send 60 percent of the power to the rear axle.)

The 996tt viscous coupling (like the 993) is far more limited in the amount of torque it can transfer to the front. The differential normally sent 31% to the front axle and 69% to the rear. The rear differential also incorporated a similar clutch acting as a limited slip differential. The clutch was controlled by the computer and ABS sensors for each individual wheel. It was criticized as being over-corrective of the tail-happy 911, creating understeer. To make the viscous coupling system engaged in the front, Porsche made the rear wheel/tire diameter smaller, causing a small speed difference between the drive shafts in the front and rear. The viscous liquid normally transferred 5-15% torque to the front axle. If conditions were necessary, the viscous coupling LSD could send 100% torque to the other axle.

The 996 and 993 AWD viscous coupling designs are very similar, and a limited amount of torque can be transferred to the front.

Because of the understeer effect that owners complained of, Porsche came full circle back to a multi plate design.

Build quality is typically subjective. However, here are objective observations from an owner of 2 996s and 2 997s.

On the 996...grab center console horseshoe. Pull gently backwards. Horseshoe and all electronics behind it are in your lap. Push open the cheesy plastic center console cup holders. Marvel at the plastic that is used on a $100K+ car. Grab the cigarette lighter compartment by the e-brake and pull up. It pops out and is in your hand. Remove the A-pillar trim and look at the tolerances of how the leather is wrapped compared to the same piece on a 997. Put your hand on the front bumper by the headlight and push up and down, the do the same on a 997 and notice how it doesn't squeak.

I think owners of both vehicles will tell you that after months of ownership, the build quality was significantly improved on the 997s. But again, this is subjective and I don't think I'll be able to convince you.

You are welcome to quote from books and manuals. But I've owned 2 996s. 2 997s. I've owned turbo versions of both. I've weighed both. The weights are essentially identical.

So, using your logic, if it is pathetic that 997 owners defend their underdog against the 991, it must also be pathetic that 996 owners defend their underdog against the 997? As the OP is looking for information about the differences between the two vehicles, I think the subjective or emotional opinions are less than helpful. But then again, maybe I just can't rise above it.

The data about the car's weight and the AWD system are factual. And there is isn't much to be gained debating those points...and that will be my last word.

 

The 997.1T is bar none the toughest engine and transmission Porsche has made to date in a 911. It has higher HP capacity and more advanced fueling, air metering systems and ECU. The 997 is really the 996.2 to begin with though in that it's an evolution of the 996. It's a very similar package. Did you know that a 996/997 roll cage is the same?

The 996T is close behind but not really a match at least in fueling and air metering.

Starting with the 997.2, it seems Porsche decided to limit the mod-ability by going to weaker rods. the 997.2 rods are 25% weaker than the 996/997 rods. I don't know if this was on purpose or not, but i have to think that sales of newer cars had to be at least somewhat hampered by people simply chipping and fixing up the 996/997.1 platform and not really spending the cash to buy a new car.

Of course PDK is the great equalizer from an acceleration perspective but also has it's limits being a first generation unit. It's obvious that Porsche has been forced to make to make quantum leaps ahead in technology in recent years. But the engines and transmissions certainly aren't as stout as they used to be.

 

I can’t rise above it either…

I love people who can’t debate constructively and finish their long opinionated posts by saying such as “and this is my last word on the matter”. Again not very scientific is it? Tell you what, you can come and work for my company as marketing director at any time, I will pay you extremely well!

For your info; I might not own a 997T nor do I wish to as my 996T is well sorted for my racing needs, but I should just point out that I have 450+ hours of racing in a 996T and 100+ in a 997T behind me as far as these two cars are concerned. So, I am not a talking man but a walking man.

Cars on the track are of similar performance period.

"And this will be my last word."

 

All 996TTs were given PSM v5 and ABS 5.7. This update came after 1999, prior to the introduction of the 996TTs. Active wheel sensors, upgraded LMVs, front wheel traction control sensors and complete anti-spin control were installed. The anti-spin control consisted of a PSM thresholds set by the wheel sensors, and provided commanded brake pressure applications to keep the car in a straight line. It was Porsche's attempt at correct for oversteer. You'll find that the 996TTs had a PSM specific pressure boost pump, separate from the ABS return pump. This is the primary reason why the 996TTs have greater understeer. This technology has changed, and is now part of PTM's programming on the 997TT with a higher threshold before activation. I could understand your argument about forward torque transfer causing constant understeer on the 997TT if we were drifting around the track.

I have weighed both cars. Same day, same fluid content. I'm not sure how I can be misleading or stating anything other than fact. I don't have a 996 or a 997 turbo any more, but I will post previous printouts if I can find them.

Are we arguing build quality or driving performance? You asked for examples of build quality. I gave them to you.

 

Interesting, so last word is not last word...

 

For either of us, lol

 

i was that close to trading my 996 for a 997 last fall. after i went for a test drive i went and drove my 996 hard for a few. not only was my 996 fast (mods), it was MY car. find a car you like, spend a s--- load of money on it and own it, and enjoy it!!!.. there will always be some new model out, but what makes any car like this is how YOU feel about it.. you will not go wrong with either one, only if you're looking for approval from a bunch of people that you don't even know online! ....

 

Good debate. Enjoyed it. Lol 2 u 2.

 

Well put. I second that.