How many owners drive above 3,000 rpm
#106
09-04-2012 | 10:43 AM
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I read the manual and thus I know it is not stated anywhere.
Perhaps when you push the pedal to the metal, it is better for the engine when running 3.000 RPM instead of 2.000. Everyone knows that. But this does not mean below 3.000 is generally bad for the engine.
While cruising, when the city is packed, it is better to use the throttle very carefully and shift around 2.500 RPM.
Also everybody knows that stop and go is the worst for any engine. But when you go stop and go it is better to do it with low RPM, instead pushing the engine above 3.000 before the next stop.
Perhaps when you push the pedal to the metal, it is better for the engine when running 3.000 RPM instead of 2.000. Everyone knows that. But this does not mean below 3.000 is generally bad for the engine.
While cruising, when the city is packed, it is better to use the throttle very carefully and shift around 2.500 RPM.
Also everybody knows that stop and go is the worst for any engine. But when you go stop and go it is better to do it with low RPM, instead pushing the engine above 3.000 before the next stop.
#107
09-04-2012 | 10:50 AM
Hey guys,Please let me know if this is worth while...
I think I am going to start a thread on how you are suppose to shift,,with using your wrisit only or with using your whole arm??...Or did someone do that already??...Wait ,no need to because its written down in A manual, some where...
ALL input taken seriously...
I think I am going to start a thread on how you are suppose to shift,,with using your wrisit only or with using your whole arm??...Or did someone do that already??...Wait ,no need to because its written down in A manual, some where...
ALL input taken seriously...
Last edited by johnspeed; 09-04-2012 at 01:47 PM.
#108
09-04-2012 | 01:12 PM
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this is becoming more fantastical with each new day. what happened to you exactly? your cardan shaft failed, and you attribute that to driving your car at engine speed below 3k?! wow. you guys know better than i do, and while i have zero technical expertise or experience i have been driving both dodge power wagons w/ crash box and 356's and many MT's in between for 45+ years, i've had four 911's, ( you could drive a 993 at 2k all day long without lugging it ) and i know the difference between "lugging" your engine, and driving at low rpms, which in this car is between 2k-3k, and i will never believe ( in spite of your thoughtful if not somewhat implausible anecdotal evidence to the contrary ) that it is harmful to the car. no one drives at that low engine speed constantly ( how again, did your cardan shaft fail?! from low rpms?! ), any more than they would above 3k! it isn't practical, or possible in most driving conditions. now i must ask, did you drive continually at low revs? i'm being rhetorical, of course you didn't.
not looking for an argument, either ( really ) so i'm not second guessing your experience, just the plausibility of occasional(?) low engine speed driving causing some premature failure of a component of the car. do you know of any literature that supports that info? i'd really like to read it. bottom line: my uneducated take again: lugging is bad. low speed ( 2-3k) engine driving is not. except to the cardan shaft apparently. ok.
not looking for an argument, either ( really ) so i'm not second guessing your experience, just the plausibility of occasional(?) low engine speed driving causing some premature failure of a component of the car. do you know of any literature that supports that info? i'd really like to read it. bottom line: my uneducated take again: lugging is bad. low speed ( 2-3k) engine driving is not. except to the cardan shaft apparently. ok.
I developed a loud rattle where the cardan shaft meets the front diff. I was fitted with the new cardan shaft and the new front diff under warranty. However, I was told that this is due to either myself or the previous owner labouring the engine, I.e. driving under 3k. This combined with my flash caused the mechanical fault. I was told if it happens again I will not be covered. This came straight from Stuttgart so think of it what you want. I won't argue about if this is what caused my failure but explanation was given to me straight between my eyes. I now keep rpm above 3k. Yes difficult it feels more natural to sit at 2.5k but I learned to drive 500 rpm higher. So no biggy.
#109
09-04-2012 | 02:25 PM
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Hey mate calm down... You are in danger of overreving. :-).
I developed a loud rattle where the cardan shaft meets the front diff. I was fitted with the new cardan shaft and the new front diff under warranty. However, I was told that this is due to either myself or the previous owner labouring the engine, I.e. driving under 3k. This combined with my flash caused the mechanical fault. I was told if it happens again I will not be covered. This came straight from Stuttgart so think of it what you want. I won't argue about if this is what caused my failure but explanation was given to me straight between my eyes. I now keep rpm above 3k. Yes difficult it feels more natural to sit at 2.5k but I learned to drive 500 rpm higher. So no biggy.
I developed a loud rattle where the cardan shaft meets the front diff. I was fitted with the new cardan shaft and the new front diff under warranty. However, I was told that this is due to either myself or the previous owner labouring the engine, I.e. driving under 3k. This combined with my flash caused the mechanical fault. I was told if it happens again I will not be covered. This came straight from Stuttgart so think of it what you want. I won't argue about if this is what caused my failure but explanation was given to me straight between my eyes. I now keep rpm above 3k. Yes difficult it feels more natural to sit at 2.5k but I learned to drive 500 rpm higher. So no biggy.
I have caused a frenzy with a lot of people whom seem to drive their cars in the lower range of the rpm.
People, some people like chickens, some people like beef, some don't like either. No need to get hostile in defending your position. I, and it appears their are several people whom have heard/been told the same- and their are several whom do it by nature. No need for name calling- this appears to be a high school classroom the way some individuals are behaving.
#110
09-04-2012 | 04:08 PM
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ps, sorry about yer c shaft.
#111
09-04-2012 | 04:21 PM
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that's how i read this thread i think it was that suggestion itself that brought loud cries of "balderdash" and "hooey". lol.
#113
09-04-2012 | 04:39 PM
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i did much my driving today above 4k to clear out all the excess carbon from all that lugg.. er, i mean driving, yesterday under 3k. just to ensure and prove to myself
that driving under 3k was still within normal operating range for the motor.
#114
09-04-2012 | 06:12 PM
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I did all of ACH with hardly a soul in sight 
you do that too? me too.
i did much my driving today above 4k to clear out all the excess carbon from all that lugg.. er, i mean driving, yesterday under 3k. just to ensure and prove to myself that driving under 3k was still within normal operating range for the motor.
i did much my driving today above 4k to clear out all the excess carbon from all that lugg.. er, i mean driving, yesterday under 3k. just to ensure and prove to myself
that driving under 3k was still within normal operating range for the motor.
#115
09-04-2012 | 06:49 PM
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I think that the biggest problem we are having is that there are multiple issues going on here. IMS failure, Cardan Shaft, and true lugging.
I asked a good friend of mine who use to be into building street/race engines for a living, this question and his answer was that lugging is bad, but most people misunderstand what true lugging is(like me). He stated that lugging is basically putting a HEAVY LOAD (pedal stomp) at low rpm's which causes fuel to burn inefficiently and causes shuddering, vibration etc. in order to give power without knock. Almost like pre-detonation. The smaller the engine the higher the rpm it needs to be maintained at to prevent this. He also indicated that there was issues with flat 4 Porsches, with crank fractures caused by lugging. He also indicated that easy driving in lower rpm's is NOT lugging and presents no issues from that standpoint. I guess this makes sense. At least I think I have a better understanding of what lugging is.
Of course IMS and Cardan issues notwithstanding.
I asked a good friend of mine who use to be into building street/race engines for a living, this question and his answer was that lugging is bad, but most people misunderstand what true lugging is(like me). He stated that lugging is basically putting a HEAVY LOAD (pedal stomp) at low rpm's which causes fuel to burn inefficiently and causes shuddering, vibration etc. in order to give power without knock. Almost like pre-detonation. The smaller the engine the higher the rpm it needs to be maintained at to prevent this. He also indicated that there was issues with flat 4 Porsches, with crank fractures caused by lugging. He also indicated that easy driving in lower rpm's is NOT lugging and presents no issues from that standpoint. I guess this makes sense. At least I think I have a better understanding of what lugging is.
Of course IMS and Cardan issues notwithstanding.
#116
09-04-2012 | 07:14 PM
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I think that the biggest problem we are having is that there are multiple issues going on here. IMS failure, Cardan Shaft, and true lugging.
I asked a good friend of mine who use to be into building street/race engines for a living, this question and his answer was that lugging is bad, but most people misunderstand what true lugging is(like me). He stated that lugging is basically putting a HEAVY LOAD (pedal stomp) at low rpm's which causes fuel to burn inefficiently and causes shuddering, vibration etc. in order to give power without knock. Almost like pre-detonation. The smaller the engine the higher the rpm it needs to be maintained at to prevent this. He also indicated that there was issues with flat 4 Porsches, with crank fractures caused by lugging. He also indicated that easy driving in lower rpm's is NOT lugging and presents no issues from that standpoint. I guess this makes sense. At least I think I have a better understanding of what lugging is.
Of course IMS and Cardan issues notwithstanding.
I asked a good friend of mine who use to be into building street/race engines for a living, this question and his answer was that lugging is bad, but most people misunderstand what true lugging is(like me). He stated that lugging is basically putting a HEAVY LOAD (pedal stomp) at low rpm's which causes fuel to burn inefficiently and causes shuddering, vibration etc. in order to give power without knock. Almost like pre-detonation. The smaller the engine the higher the rpm it needs to be maintained at to prevent this. He also indicated that there was issues with flat 4 Porsches, with crank fractures caused by lugging. He also indicated that easy driving in lower rpm's is NOT lugging and presents no issues from that standpoint. I guess this makes sense. At least I think I have a better understanding of what lugging is.
Of course IMS and Cardan issues notwithstanding.
BUT I will say I agree with what your friend said.
#118
09-04-2012 | 07:30 PM
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yup, by small he meant 2 liter. 3.6L 6cyl is not small.
no can-o-worms here, just the facts
yeah right!!
#119
09-04-2012 | 08:24 PM
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= "lugging". exactly. if only i could have said that in two words.
i think the second sentence of the thread is where this went off the rails but i've obviously enjoyed it, nonetheless. i had to go back, because i was beginning to think i imagined it.
i think if the op had said that the owners manual advises AGAINST maintaining engine rpm's of ABOVE 3000 rpm before reaching operating temp, well... i suppose there would have been no thread.
i can't seem to let it go, but this horse is glue
When the engine is operating temperature ? It states on the Porsche Vehicle Manual, to maintain the engine ABOVE 3,000 rpm's when the motor is up to normal operating temperature.
I suspect most owners lug their motors and we are seeing these type of failures. But I would like to get a poll!
I suspect most owners lug their motors and we are seeing these type of failures. But I would like to get a poll!
i think if the op had said that the owners manual advises AGAINST maintaining engine rpm's of ABOVE 3000 rpm before reaching operating temp, well... i suppose there would have been no thread.
i can't seem to let it go, but this horse is glue
#120
09-05-2012 | 09:17 AM
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Well, basically his point was that there is no reason you can't tool around in the 2000-3000 rpm range as long as your not WOT in the low rpm's you are fine. To him low(lug) rpm's are where your engine is inefficient, and stumbles stutters etc. Maybe that is why Ruf advertises their tune from low rpm drivability. Who knows. But barring other issues just tooling around in the lower rpm's should not cause damage. If you are a lead foot all the time then maybe the higher rpm's are safer for you.