So the thread should be closed.

 

I think the rod angle is way to steep. The stock setup has a boot the goes over the slave and the rod only so there still is a open area. EVOMS does not address this either.

 

I don't think so and don't really care....but do know that sometimes an open forum definitly gets the ball moving to settle things that would never be settled without it. So leave it to the administrator to make the call....IMHO

 

Group Buy?







Sorry, I have nothing constructive to add

 

This whole thing seems like price fixing. Dark room secret hand shake sort of thing.
If one company offers the same item at a lower price than the other shop which in turns gets the order I say good for them. Competition is what makes it fair for the consumer.
It's unfair for vendors to all get together, agree to sell only at retail to make there pockets fatter. Good for you Dan. This forces the other shops to compete to stay in business.
And that's the real way business should work.

 

Credit to Dan and Vivid as they are always swift when it comes to sales and even post sale communication. The problem arises when there is a dispute and they fail to admit that the customer is actually right and even when the customer has pictures to prove.

Like when I bought a CM Stage 2 clutch kit that was for a LWFW and they could not admit that they were wrong (sold/shipped the wrong part) and I was right and I had to remind them that every customer is important as poor service feedback spreads very quickly these days. Is it worth risking bad rap when it spreads so quickly over the price of a clutch!?

Yes, there was some 4 months or so from point of sale until my mechanic discovered that it was the wrong clutch kit. In hindsight I shouldn't have jumped in head first on the "deal" offered, knowing that the parts would not get installed immediately as it was in the middle of winter with 6+ inches of snow outside............. Dan however finally, after 20 or so emails back and forward agreed to take it back -5% and I had to pay for international shipping. But like someone said earlier, it can be expensive in the end when you think you are getting a good "deal".............

I'm glad they eventually agreed to take the clutch kit back but cannot understand why I had to argue when I/my mechanic was right. This mechanic does nothing but work on Cup, RS and cars with a 964 crankcase, so he knows his stuff!

Sorry for the rant but as a customer, I have mixed feelings about Dan/VR. This thread is different as it is a discussion between tuners and their integrity and moral in the Porsche tuning scene but no harm in hearing customers general feedback as it in my opinion should somewhat reflect a similar image of the tuners in question.

 

As for product research and sales, I do not know what is the right answer here as I can see both sides of this story. If both are near the same price or within a few hundred bucks I would go with Evoms.

I have also dealt with ToddZ and he was 100% honorable in my dealing with him and went above and beyond what he really had to in helping me. And that is fully appreciated. There are probably not to many that would have gone to the extent Todd did. It was a small thing but it meant a lot. Next time you are up in Denver, I'll take you to Carmines!!! Pasta and Red Wine cuz white wine is for tiptronic drivers.

 

With all due respect gearhead, let me give you an example of how exactly this process you describe above hurts the industry overall.

For example, I'll use our Werks1 rear diffuser because it has been copied (by another company, not Vivid in this case). In order to make our carbon rear diffuser, first there was months of CAD design and engineering that went into the concept. Yes, we employ a full time engineer. We had to invest in a Faro 3D scanning arm to insure proper fitment and clearance from critical engine parts. A very expensive device! Then we had to invest in several prototype molds to test fit the part before coming to a final design. Then we trucked a car halfway up the east coast and paid for several VERY expensive days of wind tunnel testing to insure that the part actually functioned and had no negative effects on handing at high speeds. Repeat this process several times before you get a truly FUNCTIONAL aerodynamic part and the costs add up very quickly. Not to mention that each part is hand-made right in our own facility in Florida.

So in order for us to get a proper return on our investment and make sure we generate enough revenue to continue this process for all of our future parts development projects, we need to set the price at a certain level. We also need to make sure that we can offer it to other retailers at a wholesale level so that they can profit from selling it as well. That price might seem high to the consumer, but it truly reflects the amount of time, R&D, and testing that went into making the final piece.

Then along comes a company who buys one of them, sends it off to China where it's duplicated at nowhere near the cost we put into it, made from inferior materials, and then they sell it to the public for 1/3 the price we do. Sure...as a consumer you think it's a great deal and why not buy the cheaper one. But the fact is that that company did not incur ANY of the costs to develop the part which is why they can sell it so cheap. So let's assume everyone buys it from them because it's cheaper...then how will companies like us be able to continue to develop similar parts in the future?? You might get a great deal that one time, but in reality it's hurting the industry overall because the real innovators who start from scratch and design new products are not being rewarded for their efforts.

In another scenario, let's say I have one retailer who continuously heavily discounts the part to the public (company X). As a result of that, my other dealers lose sales because they adhere to our proper pricing structure. That structure which guarantees them a decent enough revenue to keep their doors open. They also lose the incentive to sell our parts because they know they'll never compete on price with company X. I now have to rely on company X to reach an entire national and global market which they simply cannot do. Once again, overall sales lost., revenue lost, and future innovations hurt.

This is just an example of one part from one company. Imagine it's happening with dozens of parts from dozens of manufacturers. In the long run it will hurt the industry because there will be less innovators designing new products because they'll simply lose the incentive to do so.

 

Hi,

I fully not understand and not involve to the war thats going on.

I just share my experience,
I'm VR customer since 3 years ago. I'm far away from Jakarta Indonesia. I really appreciate when the first time I contact Dan 3 years ago and He can accepted my Indonesian Credit Card. since not many tuner/seller accepted Indonesia CC at firt time transaction and with big $. I bought part form VR for my Subaru WRX and 996. couple time, the last time just a month ago. No problem at all so far so good.

 

Tom, I can agree with your first comments and yes I don't deny the fact that r+d is crazy expensive.
Personally if I want a particular part I will stick with the manufacturer that makes it the best. This usually being the original creator. But I will also search out the best price for said part as we all need to save our pennies especially these days.
And I'm sure I'm not alone, we all do, when say buying a new tv, do we not shop around for the best price of course. It's what makes this country great. Nobody wants to pay full pull retail on anything. That's what bugs me about some of the posts in this thread, if one vendor under cuts to make more sales, and get his name out there to me that's smart business.
I'm sure he too needs to keep the doors open and the lights on.
But I also see your point of cheap Chinese knock offs of parts designed by others. These parts, whether there car related or not usually don't stand the test of time, get bad raps and fade away. I definetly feel that this pirating of ideas is wrong.
But I don't think he should be slagged on his pricing structure. Walmart might have killed main street but we still all shop there because why?? It has the best pricing.

 

i agree with gearhead on the pricing , and shopping for the best price.

unfortunately its the nature of the business .im sure everyone at some point or another copied of some one else. look at at the X pipe designs with the exhausts, or the first guy the broke porsche dme code for programing , everyone copied of that initially , it doesnt make it right , but thats the way it goes.

 

I would recommend that anyone with such a substantial R&D investment, original design and testing, to file for patent protection.



It seems to me that OEM Company A would have legal binding contracts with their distributors/dealers on pricing.

 

Patent protections are costly...in time and resources...and it takes a very long time.
If you change the littlest parameter...then no infringement....

I TOTALLY agree it needs to be done....however

 

I have no dog in this but wanted to comment on the 'cheap Chinese' copies, it needs to be clear that not all will be poor quality or using inferior materials. I employ and have worked with a lot of Chinese engineers and companies and they have the ability to shame many western engineering companies in technologies, design, engineering and QC and have proved very innovative in their own right. Its short sighted and racist to condemn a product just on where its made.

Price fixing hurts everyone... no if's or but's.

These vendor wars hurt all parties involved, it should be dealt with face to face or in court if needed. In public is not professional but I can understand frustrations.

Jay

 

The quality is NOT there.....no way around it, by the quantity of the products they export.