I don't know what tuner hp means either. My car had a tune on it when I bought it, haven't changed a thing and it has made a highest of 525 whp on a dynojet. At the time only K24's, flash, straight pipes, and DV's. Last dyno was 512 on a more conservative dyno. But based on the acceleration, I have ZERO doubts it makes what that dynojet said.

 

I appreciate the discussion and am continuing to follow it. Thanks all.

 

[quote=johnspeed;3660394]Really, I thought the inlet pipes were supposed to help at any power level. I was just get ready to order me some too. Could it be the type of inlet pipes? I would be really disappointed to get them and not get some extra hp from it.

 

I GUESS all I can say is that, yes by looking at them they should help..
BUT at what power level?
My Cargrsphics held my power down at that level, only picked up around 25 HP with the 18g over my K24s but alot more TQ in the mid.
Now I know it was the CG EXHAUST that held it back....So, if I had the Milltek on when I tried them it might have shown up then..It's all in the combination..

 

OEM HP: Baseline OEM crank 415. Make upgrades and gain 75 hp. Output = 490hp real crank HP.

TUNER HP: Baselone OEM crank 415. Make upgrades and gain 75 hp, but put the car on a dyno that reads 550 wheel hp and verify the horsepower with the butt dyno. Car has 550 tuner whp.

 

Interesting but I dont believe your above theory is right,nor makes sense..Just my opinion..
Then a base line pull on a wheel dyno with a stock motor is tuner WHP results also, according to your above logic as I see it?
So,when you put a bone stock 415 crank HP car on dyno and it makes 360 WHP thats tuner HP and if you add a map and do another pull and make 70 HP over that ,430 WHP, thats not valid because its tuner WHP again??...Really?
To each his own on opinions...Its all good..

 

Way to go overboard. No one has said 550 whp, and no one is talking about K16's. Let's not exaggerate for effect.

Stock turbo's weigh in the range of 3400-3500, pending fuel level, options etc. Add driver and you are at anywhere from 3550 to over 3700 lbs (I'm 220 and my car was about 3700 when I went to the drag strip for the first time).

Trap 125 mph (which several have done) in AWD

Most hp calculators will tell you you have from 550-600+ hp assuming 20% drivetrain loss, and none of those include additional losses for AWD (since most dyno's are taken in RWD). We all know that rwd is worth a couple MPH at the end of the strip. That takes the number for hp calculators up even more.

512 whp (rwd) /.85(rwd) = 602 crank hp.

Enter stock TT numbers from smallish mag driver with Porsche press vehicle (probably something with PCCB and on the lighter end of the spectrum). 3600 lbs trapping 114-115 mph and you get 416 to 427 hp which is right on point.

3100 lbs Z06 with driver 3250-3350 traps 125-127 with 505 crank hp. Makes sense that it would take about 100 more hp to trap in that range with AWD and 350 more lbs.

I'm not big on dyno numbers except those that are required for Time Trialing. But with regards to that, everyone must be on tuner dyno's because the number eerily tend to work out in regards to acceleration from different cars (except when they allow no penalty for dyno dynamics which reads lower).

My Traqmate GPS also tends to say just over 600 crank hp when I enter the specs of my car and then drive it on the track.

Just saying, there is evidence to support these hp claims. Real performance evidence.

 

Your example is a 3rd option, of a dyno that actually makes sense, the case where the dyno reflects actual real hp numbers. Since it reflects REAL hp how do you see that the theory doesn't work? Just bc it's done on a dyno at a tuner's it doesn't have to reflect a fake hp number if it's correctly calibrated.

I can see that the word "Tuner HP" is confusing some ppl so let's for simplicity call them FAKE hp vs REAL hp from here on.

Let's clarify so less people can get confused - afterall the forum is supposed to be helpful:
FAKE HP: Fantasy number that doesn't connect with OEM like numbers. Unsusally a big whp number presented by falsely calibrated dynos.
Real HP: Dyno numbers reflecting OEM hp like references, from accurately measuring gains and measured on a correctly calibrated dynos.

(side note - like soooo many ppl have said before for years, the best way to accurately know what any mod will do, is to do comparison runs - thus taking out the factor that a dyno can be a bit "off" on a certain dyno on their absolute number).

 

The 550hp and K16 was simply to make a clear example re the REAL and FAKE hp question, which was an OT question anyway. The K16 example was from my own car and a Dynapak, and it showed 493hp at the wheels. It was pure BS (FAKE number) because the car was nowhere near that power, the car had a 58hp gain from the OEM 415 crank hp. We're taking >100 hp off! And it's not the first nor the last time a dyno will do that, so that brings a crystal clear relevance being back to OP's questions, does he want to measure it with actual real life HP or FAKE (optimistic dyno) numbers? Before we know if he wants a cool fake dyno number or an actual gain corresponding to 600 smth crank to put him over the true 500 whp limit, how to give a good recommendation if he should go with K24 or not?

With all sidetracking said and done, if OP wants a real number he needs to go with K24 from appr 475 crank (if GT2 OEM setup) to appr 588 crank (588 minus 15% drivetrain loss, so 588 - 0.15*588hp, which is 588crank hp - 88.2hp losses = 499.8 whp). 15% is a commonly used number for RWD drivetrain losses. It is a 113hp crank gain, and the K24 at 475 is already working pretty much in the optimal area. K24 are just not suited for it. I'd say it's a huge waste of efforts and surrounding mods to try and reach that with K24. Get bigger turbos with better flow. Anyone in the real world would recommend the same thing. But if he just wants a cool fake dyno number to walk around with, then bolt on K24 and take it to a poorly calibrated dyno that gives the reading he wants.

 

A dyno is a tuning tool not a detector of true HP by any means..
But it does give a base line that is always less then crank HP due to friction loss...And that varies on different dynos ,as weather makes a difference also..
Basic 101 here>>When you add a power adder part it shows an improvement from base,,in so many HPs,,Regardless of the base you get X amount of increase..Just like you would if it was on a engine dyno !

 

I think someone needs to take a chill pill?

 

I have not heard anything good about dynapack...... Real or perceived, at the end of the day, consistency is what matters. As long as all of the dyno's are "tuner" dyno's (which is the vast majority of them) who really cares? All we are really looking for is number relative to other cars (of same and different origin) to make sure our cars output is consistent for what's on it.

As long as when I tune/exhaust my K24 car and it traps 125 and can run straight up with a couple of exhaust/intake/tune C6Z's (that made about 490 on what I suppose is a "tuner" dyno).

We can argue semantics all day, but as has been said a thousand times, the important thing is the gain over baseline on the same dyno with the same calibration and performance numbers/results.

 

K24s, FVD 1.0bar tune, Cargraphic Exhaust with high flow cats, 5 bar fpr, 93 octane only.

Stock 996tt dynoes 360whp on this dyno FIY.
REAL WHP

 

Fake HP...that's funny...how about REAL flywheel HP from the factory, and REAL chassis dyno out here in the real world...all this clarification is making it more confusing...but please continue...

 

I like that, let's make it more fun.