Chris Harris; Help an injustice against a Motoring Journalist !!!
#16
Sorry too all the readers from the rest of Houston. We are not all like Frank.
#18
Agreed with most here. If you drive someone else's car, be prepared to repair any damages that may occur during that time.
I've had issues with Chris Harris' logic in the past. This is no different.
I've had issues with Chris Harris' logic in the past. This is no different.
#19
They talked about this on the latest drive episode today (http://www.youtube.com/user/drive).
Hales claimed that there was a gentleman's agreement that the owner was not to hold the reporter liable for any damages while driving the car, a fairly common occurrence for journalists working for magazine's like octane where all they do is drive older exotic high end cars that belong to private owners.
Additionally there was reports that the transmission had issues prior to the drive that did not allow the gear to be selected and held and that basically botched the engine... not some reporter joy riding and missing a shift not knowing what he was doing. It's not like they just let anyone get in a 917 and drive it.
Hales claimed that there was a gentleman's agreement that the owner was not to hold the reporter liable for any damages while driving the car, a fairly common occurrence for journalists working for magazine's like octane where all they do is drive older exotic high end cars that belong to private owners.
Additionally there was reports that the transmission had issues prior to the drive that did not allow the gear to be selected and held and that basically botched the engine... not some reporter joy riding and missing a shift not knowing what he was doing. It's not like they just let anyone get in a 917 and drive it.
#20
They talked about this on the latest drive episode today (http://www.youtube.com/user/drive).
Hales claimed that there was a gentleman's agreement that the owner was not to hold the reporter liable for any damages while driving the car, a fairly common occurrence for journalists working for magazine's like octane where all they do is drive older exotic high end cars that belong to private owners.
Additionally there was reports that the transmission had issues prior to the drive that did not allow the gear to be selected and held and that basically botched the engine... not some reporter joy riding and missing a shift not knowing what he was doing. It's not like they just let anyone get in a 917 and drive it.
Hales claimed that there was a gentleman's agreement that the owner was not to hold the reporter liable for any damages while driving the car, a fairly common occurrence for journalists working for magazine's like octane where all they do is drive older exotic high end cars that belong to private owners.
Additionally there was reports that the transmission had issues prior to the drive that did not allow the gear to be selected and held and that basically botched the engine... not some reporter joy riding and missing a shift not knowing what he was doing. It's not like they just let anyone get in a 917 and drive it.
Driver should not have assumed responsibility of the car without proper protection/documentation/preventative maintenance.
At best split 50/50. ... and not 120,000 pounds either (or whatever that amount was).
#21
I read about this, I thought they said there was NO problem with the trans and he misshifted blowing it up. Pretty hard to side with him, though I feel for the cost etc. why drive a priceless classic like that to redline or high rpm anyway?
#22
Just a thought - if Hales had a 'gentlemen's agreement' that he would cover any damages incurred by him, doesn't this imply that he is able to cover said damages? Why did the possibility of him losing his house even come up if this was an option? Did he never intend to live up to his end of the deal?
Too much bad or misinformation.
Stinks all the way around.
Too much bad or misinformation.
Stinks all the way around.
#23
and i can think of a few chartities more deserving than a journalist, so i wont be contributing
#24
Just a thought - if Hales had a 'gentlemen's agreement' that he would cover any damages incurred by him, doesn't this imply that he is able to cover said damages? Why did the possibility of him losing his house even come up if this was an option? Did he never intend to live up to his end of the deal?
#25
The traditional "Gentlemen's agreement"(and the one reported in this case) implies the opposite. It means that the driver is trusted enough for the owner to essentially give them carte blanche. Obviously this system only works when you have two "gentlemen" involved, which is usually until something actually goes wrong.
The dispute came when he overrevved the car and blew the motor. THe journalist said it was the trannys fault (cars fault or owner) the owner said he just overrevved it, not a whole lot different than driving it into the wall. If they couldn't prove a mechanical problem with the car caused the issue, he should pay up. I'm pretty sure this is where the trial went.
The heart of the matter is, his mouth wrote a cheque that his *** couldn't cash. Period. Don't even drive a car above your pay grade unless you're accepting this risk, pretty simple. That said I feel bad for him, he may loose his career (or at least his reputation) and house over this.
Last edited by King James; 01-25-2013 at 08:34 AM.
#26
This may shed some light on things.
Obviously the driver takes the risk of wrecking the car, which is why he was insured. It's not like you can buy a one day warranty for an $80k forty year old engine that is already known to be a ticking time bomb. That's where the gentlemen's agreement comes into play. The driver trusts that the car is in proper running order and the owner trusts that the driver knows their craft. This is why it has been Hales arguing the "Gentlemen's agreement" the whole time.
"As Publishing Director for Octane I would like to clarify a few points that have been made about Octane's involvement in this case.
First of all, I would like to say that Mark is one of the most gifted and respected historic racing car drivers in the business. There is good reason why he is trusted by many collectors to drive and race some of the world’s most valuable cars. Mark has been, and continues to be, one of Octane’s most trusted writers – very few people can place the reader in the ****pit of a racing car and describe the experience quite as eruditely as Mark can.
Octane was one of a number of magazines that received a feature set up by Mark Hales directly with David Piper, comparing his Porsche 917 replica and Nick Mason’s Ferrari 512S. Octane was asked to provide insurance cover for the photo shoot and did so; the insurance policy explicitly states it does not cover mechanical failure. That is standard industry practice and is understood by freelance journalists and owners who lend their cars out in such a way.
There is significant risk involved in driving old cars. For professional drivers such as those hired to drive cars at events such as Goodwood Revival, or to test cars for magazine features, there has to be trust between driver and owner. Features in publications can add provenance, awareness, and ultimately help in the sale of a car. Most owners accept liability for mechanical failure in these circumstances as part of the general cost of ownership of old and hard-used classic racing cars.
Octane was drawn into negotiations between David Piper and AON insurance company, which ultimately refused to pay after prolonged discussions on the basis that the damage was caused as a result of mechanical failure. At that point Octane offered David Piper part-payment towards the repair costs on a goodwill basis as it was one of several magazines to publish the feature. Piper refused the offer and unfortunately the case found its way to the High Court. This should never have been allowed to happen.
It has been suggested by some that the magazines involved had left Mark to fend for himself but that is a naïve view of the legal process. Piper sued Mark Hales directly and neither Octane nor any of the other magazines involved were invited at any point to provide evidence or to appear in court.
This is an extremely unusual and unfortunate case. We are lucky in our industry to have many generous owners of these great motor cars who are realistic about their usage and testing and will continue to offer magazines the opportunity to share them with a wider public.
Geoff Love"
First of all, I would like to say that Mark is one of the most gifted and respected historic racing car drivers in the business. There is good reason why he is trusted by many collectors to drive and race some of the world’s most valuable cars. Mark has been, and continues to be, one of Octane’s most trusted writers – very few people can place the reader in the ****pit of a racing car and describe the experience quite as eruditely as Mark can.
Octane was one of a number of magazines that received a feature set up by Mark Hales directly with David Piper, comparing his Porsche 917 replica and Nick Mason’s Ferrari 512S. Octane was asked to provide insurance cover for the photo shoot and did so; the insurance policy explicitly states it does not cover mechanical failure. That is standard industry practice and is understood by freelance journalists and owners who lend their cars out in such a way.
There is significant risk involved in driving old cars. For professional drivers such as those hired to drive cars at events such as Goodwood Revival, or to test cars for magazine features, there has to be trust between driver and owner. Features in publications can add provenance, awareness, and ultimately help in the sale of a car. Most owners accept liability for mechanical failure in these circumstances as part of the general cost of ownership of old and hard-used classic racing cars.
Octane was drawn into negotiations between David Piper and AON insurance company, which ultimately refused to pay after prolonged discussions on the basis that the damage was caused as a result of mechanical failure. At that point Octane offered David Piper part-payment towards the repair costs on a goodwill basis as it was one of several magazines to publish the feature. Piper refused the offer and unfortunately the case found its way to the High Court. This should never have been allowed to happen.
It has been suggested by some that the magazines involved had left Mark to fend for himself but that is a naïve view of the legal process. Piper sued Mark Hales directly and neither Octane nor any of the other magazines involved were invited at any point to provide evidence or to appear in court.
This is an extremely unusual and unfortunate case. We are lucky in our industry to have many generous owners of these great motor cars who are realistic about their usage and testing and will continue to offer magazines the opportunity to share them with a wider public.
Geoff Love"
#27
Actually you can, not sure what it would cost, but you can buy insurance on anything, at a price
What a crappy situation overall, problem is this sets a prescience now for the future. Who's gonna pay in the end? folks who enjoy reading about those cars.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
COBB Tuning
991 Turbo
48
01-05-2016 07:06 AM
alpha motoring
Automobiles For Sale
2
10-02-2015 12:04 PM
address, auto, bio, car, chris, chrisharrisjournalist, driver, email, harris, journalist, money, motoring, professional, salary, uk