Hey guys,

So I posted a thread last season where I got stuck on a FLAT icy parking lot even after I put snow tires on the front of the car (and was trying to drive to the shop to put on the rears). So that was my first sign this AWD system wasn't good.

I got the rears on (LM60's) and it's passable on flat ground and at speed.

However, it is horrible for getting you moving from a stop. The front wheels essentially do nothing (just google any videos of 996's doing donuts in the winter).

My mechanic checked out the viscous coupler and said it was better than most he's seen.

This weekend I went on a ski trip to Whistler. On the way up, the roads were icy near our condo. Just for kicks, I stopped on a reasonable incline (nothing crazy, but steep enough that with some ice it was going to be a challenge in any 2wd car). Well, the car reacted EXACTLY like a RWD car. I slid sideways a whole bunch and couldn't get it to do anything from a stop with PSM on. Flicked PSM off and with a lot of gas, somehow it got itself going. Now, I could have easily used momentum to get me up the hill but I wanted to stress test this.

To add insult to injury. the subaru outback my friends rented with All Seasons stopped in the same spot and he just punched the gas and it zoomed right up the hill.

Don't let anyone convince you that this car is great in the snow. I DD mine, but if I lived in a snow belt state and/or by a lot of hills...I would get a real AWD car.

Edit: Just found a great example of what happens essentially

 

That vid is not a turbo, it likely a C2 which is why you don't see both rears spinning, no LSD. Not only isn't it AWD in that situation it's 1WD.

Subaru and Porsche have distinctly different AWD systems. Subaru is designed as a real AWD system vs Porsche which is a mostly RWD setup that puts 5-45% (correct me here if I'm wrong) to the front. It's more performance oriented than how Subaru has a planetary gear center differential which can distribute to each wheel equally. This is also why your snows on the front didn't help at all.

Even a C2 with four snow tires is pretty good in the snow, it's RWD and rear engine, sorta like a fwd front engine car going backwards all the time. They are good enough you can get along with them.

I do agree the AWD isn't perfectly setup for snow though, my Audi S4 with conti winters is crazy fast in the snow.

 

I have yet to have trouble with my C4S in the snow. I can plow (note the car will plow anything over 5" of snow especially with the aero kit) through anything less than 1ft of snow without issue. I daily drive mine and have designated snow tires (blizzacks 265/35/18 on the back) and have yet to have a problem. It takes a bit to learn how to drive it in the snow as my old car was a subaru sti and that thing powered through everything, but its very compliant.

How wide are your rear tires? Remember you want skinny tires for the snow and ice. The next thing I would check is how you drive. Gassing it is not going to get you moving. Light on the gas and easing the power in will get you moving.

 

The video is supposedly a C4S, and the excessive rear spinning is pretty much what I've always experienced in our cars so I have no reason to not believe them.

Once you are moving in the car, it's totally fine (I think that AWD starts kicking in more at speed), but it's really the icy hills that get it. It actually seems to do better in more snow interestingly enough.

The Blizzak LM60's are 275's in the rear, so it's downsized. Easing into the gas with the ebrake up works, but there is still a disturbing amount of sliding horizontally until it starts forward momentum.

I will admit, a lightweight flywheel does not make the "easing into it" situation any better, but seriously my friend just floored it in the subaru and voila...up the hill it went. The roads were NOT that bad.

I realize Subarus are king for these kinds of things, but I've yet to go "wow this is impressive" in the 996 when actual difficult situations have come up. It feels about the same as my 99 M3 with a limited slip that I used to take to the mountains every weekend.

 

This thread reminds me of a drive that we did a couple of years ago. A bunch of us turbo guys drove after a storm, the 6-speeds had a little trouble on an icy uphill sharp turn (not on this video) but my Tip handled it just fine.

Here's a video of part of the drive...

 

Put an lsd in the car, I daily drive my car most days, awesome in the snow and no big issues on icy roads. I live in Canada and only run conti DWS all season tires. Might go to studded snows next year which I expect to be unreal.
These cars should have come with an lsd.

 

my 996 is RWD, and i have NO abs or psm.
i have driven through every single winter storm we've had this year. form nyc to boston. at the height of the storms, when there was ice and snow on the highways. car drove PERFECTLY.

275 35 18 dunlop winter tires.

you are supposed to turn psm OFF when driving through snow/ice.

 

Psm only off if you are stuck, not off when driving.

 

I was always under the impression the TT could only shift a maximum of 20% of the power to the front wheels? So, yea, it's AWD but not really

 

i towed my friends C2 out of the snow with my C4S... my car is like a Tank in the snow

 

PSM off when driving over ANY snow or ice.
you do not control the car with brakes on snow (thats what psm does). you control it with throttle.

ive never been stuck in my 996 on my winter tires. and my car sits lower than a gt2.

 

Interesting thread. I'm in the market for a 996tt for use as a DD as I just sold my '07 S4. I split my time between Denver and Breckenridge and need a vehicle that can handle snow and ice without issue at highway speeds (with appropriate snow tires) as well as steep inclines at lower speeds in town.

I'm curious if anyone on this forum has first hand experience driving a 996tt on winter rubber on the i70 corridor on a regular basis? I make the drive a couple times a week and haven't seen more than 1 or 2 911s - are these cars up to the challenge?

 

Not correct, it can redirect power to 40% front 60%rear. Usual driving is 5/95. As far as driving the I70 corridor in my turbo, not a chance...mainly because of the other idiots on the road.

 

The one major advantage you have in CO is that the snow is a lot drier than in the midwest. Not nearly as icy/slippery.

 

Only talking about what is writen in the manual. Psm only intervines when its needed and the driver has done something wrong. You can still slide the car around but it depends on steering angle mostly.

I turn psm off when I want to have some fun in the snow but for daily driving I would leave it on.

You wont get stuck on snows unless you get unweighted in too deep of snow. 2wd or awd.