Good point arling. I'd say every time we push our cars at the limit of (or beyond) our ability to control/recover, we are performing a very selfish act. We're forgetting those who cherish our lives and/or depend on us for their happiness and well-being temporarily. Unfortunately, driving fast is a risk that's not always well calculated or understood. We're blinded by the performance of these very capable machineries.

I think a good safety measure is for DE administrators/instructors to lower the speed of true beginners to widen their margin of error, thus increasing their chance of recoverability. A beginner's biggest problem is not able to read the track correctly and to anticipate their next move without rushing.

 

Todd, that was a nice write up.
My sincere condolences to the family. It is really tragic especially so soon after Ben's fatal accident and for sure it hits home the fact that speed does not differentiate between DE and Race. We all should be carefull out there.
I also feel that since DE's are getting more and more popular , I fear that this is not the end of it. Sure we all know the risks and we all look after our safety. However a missing element which I feel needs to be addressed ASAP by our regions and clubs organizing these events is TRACK SAFETY.
I'm not talking about corner workers and the likes, but the track itself and what is the risk factor running a DE at a track with zero run off room or walls badly placed for whatever reason etc. F1 has set the standards of track safety. They do not run anywhere that the track does not meet the requirements bar Monaco which goes for tradition. Here we have the ultimate pros with the ultimate in safety equipment and standards demanding track safety. How about us?
We pay good money to participate to these events. I think we can vote with our wallets and not attend events that the track can be potentially dangerous. Sure all tracks have dangers but what I'm refering to is to REDUCE the inherent danger due to the track layout. WGI from what I have seen in the videos is a damn wall canyon. Sure it has history and blah blah blah, but for sure it does not have much room for error. This can translate to a serious accident instead of a harmless excursion to the gravel pit in case you make a mistake and I feel that in our case ( we are not pro's running for the F1 championship) the risk associated with a track like this makes it unnacceptable for us. Especially for a DE.
So I feel it is time for us to speak up and its time for our regions to do the same. If a track is not sponsored by club events due to safety concerns what will happen to it? Either the owner will make improvements or will have a nice day.
I personally plan to vote with my wallet and enjoy tracks like Putnam for example as I prefer to scrape all night grass from under my car than to have to spend a night at the hospital or worse...

 

Thanks Todd, I undertand.

Steve H: I disagree that HANS is the best. I think the ISAAC and R3 are a touch better, but all three are good. These are the only three I think you should consider.

I have had a ISAAC since for years now. Please get a HANS type device guys. I also have firesuit, gloves, shoes, underwear, fire extiguisher, roll bar etc.

Danny: I agree whole heartedly! Track choice is a huge safety factor. I only run at safe tracks, or back off on tracks that have difficult sections.

 

Ditto what Tim and Danny said about track choice. Emphatically agree.

I am confused on one point. I keep hearing this was a Green driving student that had been solo'd. I thought only Blue's got solo'd. Or was he promoted during the weekend?

 

I'm curious about this too. Our region green group is always with instructor.

 

todd thanks for the post -

Our 6speed condolences to his family
RIP

 

Just ordered the R3. Got a 22M old and a newborn.

Cleve

 

Hurts to hear about another tragedy again. Condolences to his loved ones. His name sounds swedish. Did anyone here know him well?

 

I got my Isaac just a month ago. It's quite easy to put on after some practice. Their new shoulder retaining pins allow moving it from car to car quickly.

Test results on their site indicate slight edge to HANS.

I've talked with a bunch of people who own HANS before deciding. If you are going for HANS, make sure your seat and harnes allow holding HANS in proper place. My stock Porsche seat doesn't.

Any head safety system is better than none.

 

Todd

I couldnt agree with you more.. All to many people today show up at these events and dont realize that they can be hurt very easily.

Im sure there are particular circumstances in this event that lead to the death of the driver , but that fact is people dont take safety serious enough.

When I instruct students I find it often that they dont use there heads enough and are concearned with only going fast..
Todays cars have alot of safety ( stay on the road features) and people think they can drive beyond the limits..

Its a trajedy that once again a life has to be lost for people to realize that we ( as humans) are very fragile and not indistructable.

Drivers be warned if you are going on a race track for any event.
Get the proper safety equipment and be smart about what you are doing.

Our prayers are with the drivers family.............


Just my .02 cents

 

Todd,

I am very sorry to hear about this tragic accident. I am glad you and Mike are okay. This head restraint is an excellent thing to add to my equipment before my next DE in September.

God Bless you and the family of the deceased.

 

This makes me want to get one, but the problem is the total investment if you are working with stock equipment - new seats, 5-point harnesses, then the HANS-type device. Ugh.

 

Don't forget a good roll bar . . . you have no place wearing 5- or 6-pt harnesses without a roll bar. Oof. Maybe I should have bought a used Cup car; my GT3 doesn't see much street use anyway.

 

I tried posting in the main thread but no replies. But does any one have any crash test results of 911s, boxsters, carrera GTs or any rear/mid engine cars? With the engine behind the driver, I was wondering if it negatively affects the driver during frontal impact, since there is less mass to absorb the force than front engine cars. I seem to be not able to find any porsche test results on the web!

 

I would say from a crush perspective, this would be beneficial in a frontal impact as this would permit absorption of energy and crush. The front end could come back to the A pillar if necessary. If the engine is up front, that would put the engine in your lap which is no good.

I have been involved in some crash testing and examination of vehicles after high speed impacts in efforts to recreate accidents and rate of speeds. 50 mph impact into a fixed object can be pretty devestating. If it is bouncing side to side or can move forward some after impact, it helps. 80 mph fixed object impacts will straighten the A pillars and crush front of cabin on even old 60 and 70s cars which are built much stronger than newer cars. I am talking floor board and dash to seat. Helmet and Hans not help much here.

Based on my limited experience of working with 3 experts recently, I doubt anyone could survive a frontal impact into a fixed object at 80 mph unless the blow was glancing, spinning or allowed energy to be dispersed to one side or the other. If you ran straight into a wall (precise 90 degree angle) at 80 mph in a street car, I don't think Hans will help much unless roll bar keep interior away from your body. If the angle is less than 90 degrees, and you are rotating or going to one side or the other, you chances are improving.

Someone could be traveling at 80 and drop off speed rather rapidly while braking, slidding or spinning. I actually have the coefficient of friction for asphault around here somewhere and the fomulas for all this stuff. There are also books with examples of high speed impacts experts use to examine for crush pattern analysis. True fixed object 90 degree impacts or perfectly matched head on imapcts are devestating.

I have seen head on impacts where the front driver's lights hit around license plate areas or 1/2 the front ends make impact. In these cases, the drivers are usually dead, but the passengers may escape without much injury provided the impact results in a spinning motion toward the passnger side.